Constitutional AI With Bennett Borden and Jacob Andra

The Applied AI Podcast

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Talbot West CEO Jacob Andra interviews Clarion AI CEO Bennett Borden on ensemble AI approaches.

Bennett Borden served eight years as a CIA data scientist identifying patterns in digital trails, he went to Georgetown Law and specialized in automated decision systems. Now as CEO of Clarion AI, he runs the only law firm that operates as both legal counsel and development shop, building AI systems that drive business value while maintaining legal compliance.

This episode explores multi-agent AI architectures. Borden explains constitutional AI, developed by Anthropic, which programs AI behavior through plain language directives rather than thousands of lines of code. Building with generative AI resembles forming psychology rather than writing deterministic algorithms.

Jacob pushes on the practical challenges of large context windows, where language models become unreliable when processing massive amounts of information. He describes the wobbliness that emerges when models forget what's over here when they're processing over there, and discusses neurosymbolic approaches that use ontological skeletons to help LLMs maintain context. This leads to a deeper discussion of ensemble architectures where specialized agents handle bounded contexts rather than expecting single models to manage everything.

Real implementations combine retrieval augmented generation with constitutional AI and adversarial oversight modules that audit primary agent behavior. These patterns, where modules challenge each other's findings rather than simply cooperating, create robust outcomes that monolithic systems cannot match.

The conversation covers practical enterprise applications. Back office automation handles repetitive, data centric tasks where companies apply the same judgments repeatedly. Knowledge worker augmentation transforms how lawyers, consultants, and accountants work. Borden estimates 80% of legal work can be better handled by AI, freeing professionals to focus on the quintessentially human 20% that requires judgment and strategic thinking.

Jacob probes the definition of agentic AI, noting that almost no one knows what they mean when they use the term. He identifies at least four or five common but conflicting connotations. Borden clarifies that agentic AI is fundamentally a recommendation engine on steroids, where an AI subcomponent makes decisions based on parameters it's given as part of a larger orchestration. This aligns with Talbot West's emphasis on coordinated systems rather than autonomous agents making high stakes decisions without oversight.

Data value extraction emerges as a critical theme. Companies sit on information locked in emails and file systems. Properly curated knowledge bases combined with constitutionalized AI surface insights that distinguish products and services. A retail client's app pulls weather and event data to adjust operations dynamically, increasing cookie production before predicted afternoon rushes. Borden describes predictive compliance systems that monitor for behavior patterns correlating with fraud.

The discussion addresses ensemble architectures that scale from individual modules to nested systems of systems. Specialized modules handle discrete tasks, feeding into domain ensembles that synthesize insights. Higher level meta-ensembles correlate patterns across domains, identifying coordinated activities invisible when viewing any single domain alone. Both speakers emphasize explainability and human oversight, with clear audit trails for every decision.

Talbot West delivers Fortune 500 AI consulting to midmarket and enterprise organizations through its APEX framework and Cognitive Hive AI architecture.

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