What You Want and Need to Know About FMLA

Talent Report+THRIVE

Description:

FMLA is one of our top requested topics from our 30 minute Thrive podcast subscribers. We are glad to have this opportunity to talk about the complexities of FMLA eligibility, outlining who qualifies, and exploring the spectrum of covered events. This episode will help provide some clarity on navigating leave requirements!

Resources:

FMLA Toolkit

FMLA Made Simple - Training

HR and Employment Law Essentials - Training

FMLA: Tips for Tackling 5 Everyday Challenges - Training

MRA Membership

About MRA

Let's Connect:

Guest Bio - Rob Lapota

Guest LinkedIn Profile - Rob Lapota

Host Bio - Sophie Boler

Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler

Transcript:

Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03
Unknown
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here.

00:00:21:05 - 00:00:46:09
Unknown
Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. FMLA is one of our top requested topics from our podcast subscribers, so no pressure on today's guest, but we're really glad to have this opportunity to talk about all of the complexities of FMLA eligibility, outlining who qualifies and exploring the spectrum of covered events.

00:00:46:11 - 00:01:12:21
Unknown
So our goal really for today's podcast is to help provide some clarity to you on federal FMLA. So I'm joined by Rob Lapota HR director, part of MRA Learning and Development Team. Rob, you have over 30 years of HR experience. You've answered more than 15,000 member calls on the HR hotline, and you're recognized as one of the top knowledge experts on our topic for today.

00:01:12:21 - 00:01:33:09
Unknown
And that's a federal FMLA scrub. I'm really excited to have you here today as the subject matter expert and thanks for joining us. Thank you for asking me to be here today. And welcome to everybody for our interesting talk. Yes, I like I like to tell people in our training program with FMLA made simple, get your notebook out because you're gonna be taking a lot of notes.

00:01:33:11 - 00:01:56:03
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. Get them out. Well, Rob, let's kind of start out with the big overarching question here, and that is what is FMLA. I know we have a lot of HR Professionals obviously, who listen to the podcast, who know what FMLA is, but some of our other listeners who may not be in that HR professional may not know exactly what FMLA is.

00:01:56:03 - 00:02:28:15
Unknown
So can you kind of just give us an overarching picture? So we start out the first acronym, FMLA. First, let's talk about that Family Medical Leave Act. So that took on a federal basis, that was a law. Those passed back in 1993. And it impacts employers that have 50 or more employees anywhere in the United States. Here's a kind of like a short definition of here's what the law is all about 12 weeks of unpaid leave with no penalty to the employee.

00:02:28:17 - 00:03:01:09
Unknown
Now, that sounds like a very simple one sentence definition of what is FMLA, but they're in wise the complexity, the no penalty to the employee. That's a challenging aspect of the law. And what qualifies as a reason for taking FMLA. That's the other big challenging portion. And then the overriding complexity of this law by the employee when I'm going to be off of work, I don't ask for FMLA.

00:03:01:11 - 00:03:19:15
Unknown
So, for example, if you are a supervisor, I don't call in and say, Hey, Sophia, it's Rob. Last night, my daughter, she was knocked unconscious in a soccer match, but she's actually been admitted to Children's Hospital in Milwaukee. That's where I am right now. I'll give you a call a little bit later today and I'll give you an update on what's going on.

00:03:19:17 - 00:03:48:12
Unknown
That said, I the employee is not mandatory under the law for me, the employee to say, and by the way, Sophia, why don't you give me some of the FMLA stuff? The way the federal law is written, it is the employer's responsibility in all circumstances to designate leave as FMLA qualifying. So therefore, because of the complexity, that's what makes it our number one call on our hotline.

00:03:48:18 - 00:04:14:22
Unknown
Yeah, I was shocked. Over 20% of our calls are just on FMLA. I was just going to mention that this is one of our top calls on the HR hotline and still remains to be. Yes. And we've had some topics on the podcast on FMLA, just because it is one of our most highly requested topics. And like you said, there's so many different complexities within that, even though that one sentence you gave us seems so simple, it's not as simple as you may think for experts.

00:04:14:24 - 00:04:42:16
Unknown
What factors and determine an employee's eligibility for FMLA, FMLA leave? And how does an employer ensure compliance with these criteria? So there's several criteria. And the first is I need to be working at a covered employer for FMLA. And a covered employer is one that has 50 or more employees on their payroll anywhere in the United States. And it also includes temporary employees from a temp service.

00:04:42:18 - 00:05:02:13
Unknown
So if I have 25 employees that are on my payroll and I use 25 from a temp service, I actually have 50 employees for federal employee purposes. I'm covered by the law. So for an eligible employee, first of all, I have to be working for a covered employer. Then I have several other criteria that need to be met.

00:05:02:15 - 00:05:24:20
Unknown
Number one, I need to be working for at least 12 months for that employer. Number two, I work at least 1250 hours in the 12 months prior to my need for leave. And third, I have to be working at a facility that has 50 or more employees within a 75 mile radius. Now, again, just like that, a little definition I can give you FMLA.

00:05:24:22 - 00:05:46:18
Unknown
Well, that seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? But there's a lot of twists and turns within those definitions. So, for example, the 12 months service on a federal level, it need not be consecutive. So I could be working, for example, as a college intern. As for an organization, let's say, in marketing and work for four summers in a row of three months each summer.

00:05:46:20 - 00:06:12:17
Unknown
And we're recording this in December. So let's say that I'm graduating in December. I'm going to start with the employer January of 2024. Well, you actually cannot my three months of service going back four years because it's a seven year lookback period. Okay. So here's the strange thing. Effective January 2nd, 2024, since my official start date, I'll actually have 12 months of service for that employer.

00:06:12:19 - 00:06:38:19
Unknown
The same thing goes when people leave organizations. Let's just say I worked at an employer from 2015 to 2020 and then I get rehired on January 2nd, 2024, by that same employer. Well, again, there could be up to a seven year break in service. That's well within that. So I will actually have 12 months of service on my first day of employment reemployment, I should say, with that employer.

00:06:38:21 - 00:07:04:09
Unknown
Second of all, the 1250 hours that is paid time only, that does not include things like holiday pay, PTO, sick pay, self-funded short term disability payments. Those are not included. And that's it's just actual work hours. And then the third criteria, this is and again, another strange one. I work in a facility that has 50 or more employees within a 35 mile radius.

00:07:04:11 - 00:07:33:03
Unknown
Well, let's just take it for plain value. Let's say that we have an organization that has three facilities. They're all within 75 miles of each other. And one employs 30, another one employees 20 and a third facility. Employees 20 there, or that's 70 employees. So if I work at any of those facilities, I'm working in a facility that has 50 employees within a 75 mile radius.

00:07:33:05 - 00:07:57:02
Unknown
Now, that's also extended to include remote employees and all that's since COVID. You know, a lot of remote work going on. And still today, the little twist with that, I'm included in the headcount where I get my work instructions from. So here we are. We're in Waukesha, Wisconsin, recording our program. And this is our call, our corporate offices for me.

00:07:57:04 - 00:08:28:20
Unknown
So let's say that I live in Iowa and I work remotely, but I report to my manager, who is here in the Waukesha, Wisconsin, location for the 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. I'm actually counted in the Waukesha, Wisconsin, head count for FMLA eligibility. Now, some employers don't have that. They might have facilities for example, in one state that are not within 75 miles of each other.

00:08:28:22 - 00:08:53:11
Unknown
And we don't have 50 employees within that 75 mile radius. However, they still have 50 total employees. So they're covered employers under the law for now. What do you do? I'm a covered employer, but I literally I don't have any eligible employees because we don't work at a facility that has 50 employees within a 35 mile radius. What do we do?

00:08:53:13 - 00:09:14:08
Unknown
Well, if I was your head of HR What i would recommend is that we treat all of our locations as though we have 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. This could also become a little bit of an employer relations issue. Let's say that one of those facilities has 125 employees, and the other ones are outside of the 75 mile radius.

00:09:14:09 - 00:09:42:14
Unknown
Let's just say they have, you know, 40 employees each. Well, during employment meetings, I've had this happen before. Our plant that has 125 people that's going to be eligible employees, got 50 employees within a 75 mile radius, the location being C, we're not going to call you covered employers, eligible employees. Excuse me, because you don't work at a facility that has 50 employees within a 75 mile radius.

00:09:42:16 - 00:10:05:19
Unknown
So too bad, so sad you lose. Well, for an employer relations standpoint, we need to go have your employee meetings. The employees are company B and C are going to immediately throw their hands up in the air to go. Why does everybody at location, age, how come they get FMLA and we don't get FMLA? Well, you got to understand, you don't work at a facility that's 50 employees with a 75 mile radius.

00:10:05:21 - 00:10:29:16
Unknown
That's an employee relations disaster. So that's why I suggest mandatory. But I suggest you treat those locations as though they do have 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. Absolutely. And I love that you're giving those scenarios because that that helps helps a little more to, I don't know, understand. I'm sure a lot of people have these certain situations, laws to absorb.

00:10:29:18 - 00:10:54:19
Unknown
So are there any common misconceptions? And with FMLA eligibility that you often encounter kind of sees or working with members in, how can these kind of be clarified? Then the biggest misconceptions for the employee eligibility portion it covers around those the areas of tribute to a seven year break in service. So the example I gave that I'm a college student working in marketing Pimp.

00:10:54:24 - 00:11:14:16
Unknown
I work for you through 2020 Rehire Me. A lot of employers are not aware I have 12 months service effective on day one. And the other big misconception about eligibility, All of our members of MRA, they will work on what's called a temp to perm basis, or they'll have employees from a temporary service work for like 90 days.

00:11:14:16 - 00:11:41:11
Unknown
And if they work out, they'll put them on their payroll. Well, that's a situation called Joint Employment. So for those temporary employees that we put on our payroll, effective on day one, the hours that they worked and the months of service that they worked actually do count towards their eligibility of 12 months of service and 1250 hours worked through like a walking book of knowledge, you know, like that's what they're on.

00:11:41:11 - 00:12:00:05
Unknown
Tell me. Yeah. I've even had some people tell me I know a little bit too much about FMLA, I think, but that's why you're the perfect guest here. You can answer your question. So I have an advantage. I've been in here at Emory 25 years. Yes. As an instructor. We're not attorneys here, but I love the law. I read a lot of court.

00:12:00:06 - 00:12:19:11
Unknown
I mean, I've read thousands and thousands of court cases. Keep up with employment blogs, Talk about FMLA. Jeff Nowak is one of the top people in the United States at his blog FMLA Insights. And yeah, I just I actually find it very fascinating. Well, that's right. And you probably get a lot of calls, too, on FMLA, where you are.

00:12:19:11 - 00:12:42:12
Unknown
You want to kind of give those scenarios. And here's what I would do in that situation kind of thing. Correct. So next question here. In what situations might employees find themselves ineligible then for federal FMLA leave? And do you have any alternatives or options that may be available to them that you can suggest? So go back to the eligibility requirements.

00:12:42:12 - 00:13:00:04
Unknown
I worked for you for 12 months and I have at least 1250 hours worked in the 12 months prior. And we already kind of explained that 50 employees within the 35 mile radius once we don't need to hit that one. That would be a point of ineligibility that I don't can, you know, work there. So let's focus on those first two.

00:13:00:06 - 00:13:26:24
Unknown
So for the hours of work, let's say that I get what's the score? January 2nd, 2024, since it's right around the corner here. Let's say that it's my first day of work. Let's see. Then in March 2024, I'm diagnosed with cancer. They catch it early. It's not very advanced, but I do need to miss work or radiation treatments and then, if necessary, to recover from those radiation treatments.

00:13:27:01 - 00:13:50:22
Unknown
Well, I still have to send me as the new employee who's only been there for three months now, I still need to get an eligibility notice from the employer. There's three mandatory notices that need to go out, so I need to get that eligibility notice. It states you're not eligible for FMLA, federal FMLA. Why You haven't been here 12 months as of the date of your need for lead.

00:13:50:22 - 00:14:15:19
Unknown
This is on the eligibility notice. You've worked X months towards 12 months of eligibility, so the employer would write three months in their hours of work. If I am working part time, I could be working for you for over a year. But again, if I don't have that 1250 actual work hours, that could be our second issue, where I will not be eligible as the employee.

00:14:15:21 - 00:14:39:14
Unknown
Now in our training, I always told employers, if you can't give FMLA, if it doesn't qualify, it's an issue that's not covered by FMLA. We need to be much more flexible as employers today with time off and adjusting schedules and what other policies to you have as an employer so that employee can have time off. Maybe you have a policy.

00:14:39:15 - 00:15:06:01
Unknown
It's called a force substitution policy. You must use any accrued, unused PTO, whatever you're going to be missing work. Maybe that's what'll be implemented. Maybe there's a personal leave of absence that can be used now if it's for the employee's own medical issues. For example, the cancer that I gave you that's actually now going to fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

00:15:06:03 - 00:15:42:13
Unknown
Now we have an employee who's suffering with cancer, which is considered a disability, and they're not eligible for FMLA. So we would actually need to provide unpaid leave as an accommodation under the American Disabilities Act. So I'm going to get a eligibility notice. You're not eligible for FMLA, but then I'm also going to receive a cover letter I should from the employer saying, okay, although you're not eligible for FMLA, you are covered under the American Disabilities Act and we will be providing you with unpaid leave as an accommodation under that law.

00:15:42:18 - 00:16:09:24
Unknown
So it's very, very important that the employer state specifically what laws are applying during what time of their lives. Interesting. Yeah, well, that's great to know. And I know you've covered this a little bit in her past. Questions, uncertainty, examples of medical leaves. But do you have any other examples that are covered instances or events under FMLA? And are there specific nuance says for each type of leave.

00:16:10:01 - 00:16:13:21
Unknown
So how much time do we have?

00:16:13:23 - 00:16:37:00
Unknown
This is worth over a long problem. This is where we're getting into the nuts and bolts of the mechanics of FMLA that can get very, very complicated. We were very, very fast. So let's try to summarize this for our listeners and our viewers. So I like to refer to these as buckets of leave. So there's nine completely different buckets of leave.

00:16:37:02 - 00:16:59:23
Unknown
All of them can have completely different operating orders. For example, when does that one come into impact? You know, when are we when do we apply to excuse me, I said that when do we apply that particular need for leave? How do we certify it? How long will that individual be off of work? And here's again, another big misunderstanding on employers.

00:17:00:00 - 00:17:22:15
Unknown
And I hear this now. I've been doing this for 25 years. The law has been in place for over 30 years now. I will still have no, I'm not surprised. Managers and supervisors in our supervisor in the law, of course, are FMLA overview class and even HR People in our FMLA simple administration class for FMLA. So how long do you need to be off of work in order for FMLA to apply?

00:17:22:15 - 00:17:49:24
Unknown
Her hands go up and they go, I know, I know, I know. You have to be out of work. Three consecutive workdays, and then when you're out for three consecutive workdays, that's when FMLA applies. The answer is, No, it doesn't. But I was like, No, nice try. No, no, it doesn't. In fact, all of the buckets of leave except for one can actually be taken in our concurrence.

00:17:50:01 - 00:18:17:11
Unknown
wow. So let's talk about the one that you do need to have multiple days of absence, because this is a common one that happens in this particular book. It's called Continuing treatment. And part of this bucket of leave, i.e., the employee need to be out for four consecutive calendar days or I'm off of work taking care of the same family member for four consecutive calendar days.

00:18:17:13 - 00:18:36:21
Unknown
Now, it's tricky about this bucket is that this is the only one where the employee can actually just call in and say, I'm sick and it could be FMLA. You know, the reason why we said could be FMLA once it meets these requirements for these particular buckets, well, then the employer response. Remember I said earlier, the employee doesn't ask.

00:18:36:21 - 00:19:02:15
Unknown
The employer responds with all the mandatory notices, but all these absences need to be documented with a certification form. None of this is done verbally. It's all documented. So how we use that medical certification form. So, Sophia, it's Rob. It's Monday. Soviets. Rob, I'm sick. I'm not going to be in today. That's not FMLA Tuesday. Sophia, it's Rob.

00:19:02:15 - 00:19:27:07
Unknown
I'm still sick. I won't be in today no matter familiar. Now, Wednesday. Sophie Last night, my wife took me to urgent care. I don't have COVID, but I've got some sort of a respiratory thing that's going around. I actually feel worse not going to be in today. We're not there yet. Again, the way the law defines this particular bucket, it says more than three consecutive calendar days of incapacity.

00:19:27:09 - 00:19:55:15
Unknown
So literally what that means is I need to call in four days in a row. So now, Thursday. Hey, Sophie, it's Rob. I'm still not feeling good. I'm not going to be in today. Now use my manager. I notify our leave administrator. Could be HR Could be somebody else. Payroll, maybe. And that starts the familiar paperwork process. Okay, so once the employer's notified of my need for leave, which in this case would be Thursday.

00:19:55:17 - 00:20:20:06
Unknown
Now, the employer has five business days from that date to give me the eligibility notice. Then rights, responsibilities notice a medical certification form goes along as well, and that needs to be returned within 15 calendar days. And then after that time period ends, there's a third mandatory notice called the designation notice. So this is really it's a paperwork here.

00:20:20:06 - 00:20:44:01
Unknown
It really, really is. So we the employer, we act on that fourth day of absence Now for this particular bucket, in order to be covered by FMLA, the employee would have to go see a health care provider medical certification form and need to be returned within 15 calendar days. And on their certification form, it's documented. They were out for four consecutive calendar days or more.

00:20:44:03 - 00:21:07:21
Unknown
They saw a doctor in person tell the visits are included in that and they got a prescription medication that's like 90% of the certain forms I've seen in the past. The other could be they saw a health care provider two times in person. When that's documented, that then would be qualified and can be marked as FMLA for that particular employee.

00:21:07:23 - 00:21:29:11
Unknown
So the key there for consecutive days of absence calendar days. If I work Friday, I'm off Saturday and Sunday. Friday. So if it's Rob, I'm sick. I won't be in today. I don't work Saturday and Sunday. Monday. So if it's where I am sick, I won't be in today. Believe it or not, under the law, that's considered more than three consecutive days.

00:21:29:11 - 00:21:51:24
Unknown
I mean, capacity that actually starts the FMLA paperwork process. Now, the way that the employee says I don't want FMLA. Yeah. Is they never return their medical certification form. Their employer still needs to go through all the paperwork, all those monitoring notices. But eventually you're going to get a designation notice at the end that says absences for these four days, not FMLA.

00:21:52:01 - 00:22:14:19
Unknown
Why you didn't return a medical certification form. So that's that's just one bucket, the only one where you can call in sick. And these are short term illnesses and injuries. Now, there isn't a list that I can give you that does not exist, but this could be the area like colds, ear infections, pinkeye. COVID falls into this bronchitis.

00:22:14:21 - 00:22:40:08
Unknown
You strange your back moving grandmas are more. Over the weekend you went skiing and you broke both of your arms and you can't work. And it's going to be about 6 to 8 weeks for your bones to heal. So these are short term illnesses and injuries. And a remember for either the employee or covered family member, which would include a spouse, children or parents and then stepparents as well.

00:22:40:10 - 00:23:08:08
Unknown
So that's that's one particular bucket. Things like pregnancy covered by FMLA, even absences for prenatal visits or morning sickness, those are covered by FMLA. Anything to do with adoption or foster care placements, those are all covered by FMLA, any pre placement issues that need to happen, court medical evaluations, traveling to different countries, post adoption, post foster care placement, being with them.

00:23:08:10 - 00:23:32:03
Unknown
That's covered by FMLA to stay. So let's talk now about the number one headache. And I don't mean to be a pun with that, the number one headache under FMLA is a bucket called chronic conditions. So short term illnesses and injuries, that's the continuing treatment. It's got to have at least three consecutive days. I mean, capacity, chronic conditions.

00:23:32:03 - 00:24:01:20
Unknown
However, these are long term or permanent medical conditions. Okay. The employee or the covered family member are probably on some sort of a medication. And with our certification forms, it's very typical for these chronic conditions to be certified for up to a year. And what we need to look for on the certification form, it's actually the last question on the certification form, and it's the area called frequency and duration.

00:24:01:22 - 00:24:24:04
Unknown
So the number one medical issue that we get in our hotline is migraine headaches. So as migraines, we send them to their health care provider, they bring back the medical certification form. We're going to go look back at that frequency and duration frequency. How many times a month is this issue going to happen? Duration? How long will any event last?

00:24:24:06 - 00:24:48:05
Unknown
Well, the search form states 1 to 2 episodes per month, 1 to 2 days per episode. That means that that employee could be up to four days of FMLA per month, though. Here's why This is the most complicated bucket to deal with. And actually for managers and supervisors, the most frustrating bucket to deal with. When's that employee going to have the next migraine?

00:24:48:07 - 00:25:17:03
Unknown
When is their child going to have their next seizure? You don't we don't know. And there's never a good day to be off of work. Yeah. Now, sadly, this is also the bucket where occasionally we may have an employee that will be a little bit abusive with us. For example, Fridays and Mondays is a pattern of absences days before and after paid holidays, even vacation time to make some sort of an extended period of time offering.

00:25:17:06 - 00:25:40:08
Unknown
Now that does happen, but thankfully it's not a very large portion of our employees that are using FMLA, But it's going to be the most frustrating one that we have now. Please keep in mind that all these different areas that we're talking about do not require multiple days of absence. These can all be hourly, right? So I think right now it's about 10:30 a.m..

00:25:40:10 - 00:25:59:08
Unknown
I can give you a call or I can come over to you by your office and say, Hey, Sophie, I feel my IBS about to act up your irritable bowel syndrome. I need to get out here and get home. You know, I go home and if I work until 3:00, you can charge me 6 hours of FMLA. So I can charge half a million hourly increments.

00:25:59:10 - 00:26:25:21
Unknown
So it's not missing holidays, chronic back parking. It could be parts of days, leaving work early, coming to work late because of that chronic condition. And again, this is why that particular area of leave, that's the most frustrating for employers. These are long term. So I've been in Emory 25 years and let's say that I have the migraines up to four days a month of FMLA.

00:26:25:23 - 00:26:48:22
Unknown
Well, if I'm working 12 weeks of leave at my work schedule, that's five days per week, 12 weeks, that's 60 individual days. I work 8 hours a day. That's 480 hours of FMLA. Or if my health care provider certifies me as for four migraines a month for, you know, total days of migraines, well, four times 12 is 48 days.

00:26:48:24 - 00:27:11:12
Unknown
I didn't really use up all of my FMLA that I'm eligible for. I still have 12 days left. Once I'm eligible for FMLA for the next 24 years, I could be missing 48 days for migraines, unscheduled partial days coming in late. And there's very little that you can do as an employer. That's why that's one of the most frustrating.

00:27:11:14 - 00:27:37:18
Unknown
Now i always told managers and supervisors and HR People when we talk about this frustrating bucket that we take a little bit of pause here. Everyone struggles with this. They all know exactly what i'm talking about and we get upset with these employees and somehow we try to do something to make that person's life miserable. I'm leaving now of irritable bowel syndrome.

00:27:37:20 - 00:28:11:17
Unknown
You look at me and you raise your eyebrows and half by suppose under the law, there's two legal things that can happen interference of my ability to take leave and retaliation for taking that leave. So a story that I had an actual event, a manager for a manufactured usual. It's the last week of the month. We do a lot to get everything out, got to get our orders shipped and we're try to get as much as possible.

00:28:11:17 - 00:28:41:22
Unknown
So end of the month for a manufacturer, that's a big deal. So on the beginning Monday of the last week of the month, individual again suffered with migraines and this person typically was off at the end of the month because their migraines were stress induced. So on Monday, the manager has pre shift meetings always. So on this Monday morning meeting Cavs all the employees together and talks about the week and the jobs that they're working on right now.

00:28:41:22 - 00:29:01:09
Unknown
Then at the very end of the meeting he goes now as you know this is the last week of the month we got a couple new customers. We got to make sure that we get this out the door to make these people happy. And then he looked directly at the individual with migraines right into their eyes and said, and I'm counting on everyone to be here this week.

00:29:01:11 - 00:29:26:19
Unknown
Now, I do say kudos to the employee. Actually, congratulations. Employee they went right to their HR Department and they said the right thing. My manager just threatened me that i better not have a migraine this week. So i got that call on the hard line. And the member's question was, did her supervisor create any problems? Yeah. And the answer is, you bet they did.

00:29:26:19 - 00:29:51:03
Unknown
They are now interfering with that person's right to take leave. I think I forgot to mention this before when I was kind of going on with another explanation that's really tell about people. The chronic bucket. You might be frustrated with your employees understand you might be here one day right now. Although my time here at MRA, I've actually had three major surgeries, two shoulder surgeries and a major back surgery.

00:29:51:05 - 00:30:15:16
Unknown
So I was actually off of work and using FMLA, and none of that was held against me. The revenue lost my coworkers that need to substitute for my training aren't seats. They couldn't get booked because I was not available so that the lost revenue. None of that can be held against that employee. So again, that's that time off unpaid with no penalty to the employee.

00:30:15:16 - 00:30:37:04
Unknown
That's why it's a very simple statement. But there's a lot to that implication of the workplace. So we saw the continuing treatment, the chronic conditions at school. We see a lot of her mileage when you use now the other buckets. So we have the employee who literally needs to see something medical. For example, a parent has stroke and end up in the hospital.

00:30:37:06 - 00:31:04:13
Unknown
So inpatient hospitalizations, anything to do with nursing homes or hospice care, including home hospice care covered by FMLA? My mom has structures in the hospital that is way, way beyond I'm sick or opiate work today. It's very, very specific issues like dealing with end stage of life covered by FMLA. If the employee needs time off, not the bereavement part, but if I need time off to be with that family member.

00:31:04:15 - 00:31:31:13
Unknown
Severe arthritis and getting treatment, for example, physical therapy. How can you dialysis reconstructive surgery after an accident or a cancer? So the reasons for leave are very, very specific medical reasons. Yeah. Now under the law, there's actually two additional military related leaves. One's got a really unusual name called military exigency leave, and the other one's called Care for Recovered Servicemember.

00:31:31:15 - 00:31:54:08
Unknown
Now those are for family members of the employee of a covered employer that can take time off when that family member is either deployed on active duty or is injured or become sick because of their active duty deployment. Now, on our hotline in my training programs for the last several years, I have not had any examples of those.

00:31:54:10 - 00:32:11:02
Unknown
So if you have an employee that comes in and says, Hey, my son's being deployed in the military, can I get some time off? Well then that said military exigency. You deal with that at that point. But that that's the summary for those two conditions. Basically that is the area of the coverage and a quick summary for our familiar leave.

00:32:11:04 - 00:32:35:14
Unknown
All that was a lot. So I hope you all were writing the writing notes. TSA at the beginning, get your notepad out. I take a lot of notes like now would be a perfect time for a pop quiz or something. Right now, let's take a break and look at all your notes so far. But moving on here, what advice do you have for employers navigating intermittent FMLA leave requests and balancing business needs with employee rights?

00:32:35:16 - 00:32:52:23
Unknown
So here again with our examples with that chronic condition is probably we're going to see that most often with the intermittent leaves, it can happen with the other areas of leave as well. Let's focus on those products. Yeah, once I'm certified by my health care provider, there's actually very little that an employer can do to manage those situations.

00:32:53:00 - 00:33:16:24
Unknown
However, if we do have patterns of potential abuse, there are a few things that we can do as an employer to deal with those abuse issues, and it's a little bit too much for our little overview that we're doing today. But there's a couple things that we can do as employers other than just catching the person an outright fraud, fraudulent use of leave.

00:33:17:01 - 00:33:40:10
Unknown
Yeah, it's a bunch of hurdles that we need to come to deal with that specific issues. Yeah, absolutely. Well, kind of wrapping up here, Rob, we've talked a lot a lot today about FMLA and just kind of the overarching picture. But can you end with any insights and best practices for employers to ensure smooth and fair practice regarding FMLA eligibility in covered events?

00:33:40:12 - 00:34:04:19
Unknown
So, number one are HR People who are administering FMLA, you need to be trained on how to administer properly. Now that's what we here at emory. We have our FMLA made simple class where we deal with that issue for our managers and supervisors training as well. Not how to administer FMLA but understanding what do i need to listen for those buckets of leave that starts the FMLA process?

00:34:04:21 - 00:34:26:07
Unknown
And then also, what does it mean that I have no penalty under the leave and also of the basic rights are under the law. So training and awareness are two big compliance tools that we need to use. Yes, absolutely. It also lets mention about training employees. I've had this brought up many, many times during my training programs on FMLA.

00:34:26:09 - 00:34:53:00
Unknown
Well, Rob, this is a really complicated law, so can you come to our organization and just do like a one hour overview for our employees? Well, first of all, the law doesn't state any mandatory training for our employees. In fact, it assumes that any mandatory training for HR People are mandatory. The supervisors but unfortunately, it's not required. You're putting the posters up, responding to the requests when they come in properly.

00:34:53:00 - 00:35:15:08
Unknown
That's the way that we deal with FMLA. We have to be very careful about training our employees because if we just did an explanation of what we just covered, literally, you're going to open a Pandora's box. Hey, do you know how to be off on FMLA? Here's how you do it. No, I'm not saying that with a cold shoulder or unsympathetic, but we don't want to encourage the issues.

00:35:15:10 - 00:35:35:19
Unknown
We've had a lot of situations in the past where the entire shipping department all of a sudden, though, has chronic depression. because that word spreads, right? So we don't need to encourage that. But again, the majority of our cases that we deal with under FMLA, people legitimately do have medical issues of themselves or a covered family member, and they really do need that time on.

00:35:35:19 - 00:36:04:00
Unknown
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure you've seen a lot and heard a lot of story. Well, Rob, I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and thank you for sharing your expertise on FMLA specifically, like I mentioned, this is a highly requested topic, so I appreciate you coming on the podcast today to cover that. And to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today, I would urge you to come and something new that you learned today or anything that you'd like to add on to this conversation.

00:36:04:00 - 00:36:27:15
Unknown
We'd love to hear, hear from you. Don't forget to share out this episode. Consider joining MRA If you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below, including resources on our topic for today and training links. So check those out. And we've also included Rob's bio and LinkedIn profile. So if you'd like to connect with him, we've got the resources for you to do that.

00:36:27:17 - 00:36:50:12
Unknown
Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in and thanks again, Rob. Thanks for having me. Here's a lot of fun and we'll see you next week for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other Emery episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA 30 minute Thrive so you don't miss out.

00:36:50:13 - 00:36:55:05
Unknown
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.