Daniel Zhu - Stance Elements - Entrepreneur, Social Media Expert, Dance Media, and Bboy Olympics - Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 016

Noise Of The Broke Boys

Daniel Zhu, the creator of the popular social media channel, Stance Elements, discusses his insight on how his channels blew up on social media, social media marketing, the bboy scene, breakdancing in the Olympics, and the dance scenes similarity to the Esports scene.

A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.

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in this episode the creator of Stan's

elements an online movement arts

platform sits down to discuss the

history of its creation we discuss

various topics related to digital media

marketing videography hip hop and

entrepreneurship I had a great time

picking his brain about his side of

breaking in social media that I don't

know much about please enjoy the episode

with mr. Daniels ooh hello

welcome everybody to the slow subtle

collapse of society in podcast form this

is north of the broke boys I am your

host Kurt the hurt and today I have a

special guest his name is Daniel zu he

is mr. Stan's the creator of Stan's the

CEO of Stan I don't know what is your

title grand wizard of Grand Wizard just

call me a creators the Creator witch

so Stan's is I consider it like in urban

arts like media platform but what what

do you what do you call it we call it a

movement arts platform movement arts

platform interesting ok yep so that

basically is saying like

I guess you guys do dance you guys film

tricking you guys do yeah anything your

body you've in some way can move and

then in artistic format of weather so

it's not just dance it's just it's

really men arts yeah I guess is the best

name for it he kind of made it that way

because we wanted to just you know not

back ourselves in a corner with one

topic yeah yeah okay and so the first

time I think I saw stance was it was on

your YouTube channel in I don't know if

that's where you guys started but I

think that's when I first saw and you

guys were posting a lot of footage from

b-boy battles and stuff and now you've

kind of grown to this social media

platform and then yeah and then filming

all these other different events and now

it's like I see like literally every

large dance event you guys are there and

it's like I don't watch footage too

often but when I do I immediately go to

youtube type in stance and then look at

that look at what you guys have so I

would say that you know seems to me like

you probably have the biggest or at

least the most successful media platform

in this space which I'm curious like how

that makes you feel like what the

journey to get there it just seems so

crazy it's uh it's a lot of momentum

yeah it's a Activ that's I can say it's

you know you start something small and

now it's just you have a lot of momentum

and then you know it feels weird like

you go a couple of days without post

anything keeper like so hmm what's going

on yeah yeah and so you just kind of

ride that and keep going and going

yeah yeah yeah you know and then

eventually get to where you are where I

think now you're is it your face but

like I don't I think between all your

platforms you've got like over a million

kind of subscribers or a couple billions

yeah a couple million wow that's great

so I mean that's that's crazy to think

that that came from breaking and now

it's to where you are now is just great

because you know when I started breaking

this was like events were barely a thing

you won an event and they were like

here's a some gas money and stuff and

like it was the ghettoest shit ever and

so to see it now to where you guys

there's a legitimate media company out

there that is traveling the world

filming all these huge events their

sponsors involved with the events and

stuff it's just crazy to see that in my

lifetime I was able to see that I mean

it's really a short time in a way I mean

I've been breaking less than 20 years

probably think about 18 19 years so to

see it happen within that span it's like

crazy it feels like we were in the Stone

Age compared to to now and so like I

don't know it's just when I when I look

at Stan's it's like it makes me proud as

a b-boy to see that we've gone so far to

you know be like a legitimate um I don't

know what you'd call us but more than

just some people rolling around on the

floor legitimate movement it's a

legitimate movement yeah I mean at least

it's being recognized as that now yeah

we I think all of us always considered a

legitimate form but you know your

parents are like rolling on the floor

and shit yeah yeah that's our biggest I

think I think every time we create

something major or stance or something

that we always think about people like

our parents people that don't understand

the dance and we're like okay how can we

reach these kind of people yes there's

more of these those kind of people than

they are dancers oh yeah yeah and so

we're like okay we the more non dance

people or non people associated with the

scene that get addicted to this mmm

you know the more momentum we get yeah

yeah and and I do think that that is

gonna play a huge part in the the later

success of this culture as more people

get involved with it see it fall in love

with it and continue to follow it and

hopefully participate in it not that

they have to but I think you'll see you

know right now the participation rate is

from mostly dancers but I think we're

going to start seeing participation from

the like viewers now you

no like legitimate fans and stuff like I

kind of compared to like skateboarding

or something you know we're you know

you'll watch it on TV as on like the X

Games and you're like dude this stuff is

crazy

skateboarding Mme Mme yeah exactly no

anything like there's a big boxing fight

this weekend mm-hmm I mean everyone the

online is talking about but who the hell

really boxes uh-huh yeah you know but

they're all fans yeah yeah I mean it's

like yeah a lot of the fans the they'll

take a boxing class or whatever but

they're not like some freaking hardcore

in the disguising everybody but it's

like they're talking about anyways yeah

it's like it's a casual fan casual not

in the sense of that they don't know

what's going on in the sport but casual

in the sense that they're not in the

ring punching each other oh I think

we're gonna see a lot more of that in

Breaking and I do think that you guys

are kind of a hinge point of making that

happen

mm-hm and I know that there's a few

other creators out there that are also

doing a similar thing to you guys but I

see you guys that's probably the biggest

and also the catalyst to I guess making

what they're doing happen as well it's

like I really see you guys as the ones

that paved the way to make it happen I

don't know if you feel that way but I

mean I'm a little ice I came from I came

from the other channel to strife that's

right and that literally did pave the

way that's right yes Drive yeah I guess

they yeah but you were involved with

that right and I guess yes like once

once strife kind of whenever went

wherever it went you kind of took it to

the next level and continued to to push

it to where it is now so I don't know

it's just it's just cool to see that now

mm-hmm

changing topics uh I'm curious how you

actually got involved in the hip-hop

scene the dancing cuz I know you're from

South Dakota which yes like all I can

think of from there is like oil fields

and like snow is that right

like I don't see hip-hop is something

being up farms farms yeah there's yeah

pretty much there wasn't really much

hip-hop at all yeah

but I got I got into the scene because

of college okay yeah and you went to

college out there or no I went to

college in a university Wisconsin okay

there's probably not a lot of b-boys

there either actually I have a friend

who's going to school in Wisconsin now

he's in med school and he says there's

not a lot of people so imagine there's

probably more than South Dakota there's

a lot more than South Dakota

I mean Wisco Wisconsin you got the

benefit of you got the Milwaukee scene

yeah that's right you got the Chicago

scene okay they're all within an hour to

drive away so you know when I started I

good friends with like motion disorders

yeah yeah okay you know Rick heads Rick

heads

you know Chicago tribe Chicago Tribune

yeah yeah yeah so but no college was you

know you see you hear about these like

breaking clubs that they have in college

and that's how I started you know

that's tight ya know I have a lot of

friends that did the same thing I mean

one I went to UC Davis I was already

breaking before them but like once I got

there one of my friends he started he

used to do the Warriors games with me

actually he started a club and I was

kind of just a bum and I was like I'm

gonna really be a part of I mean I

wanted to be a part of yeah but I was

like kind of like how about you do the

work like come and break but he built it

he built the club up and he did a lot of

stuff with it and like introduced so

many people to the dance and I look back

and I'm like oh man I wish I could have

been more involved with that now it's

not been so I guess selfish

cuz the back then I was just like oh I

don't care about this I just want to

break yeah but seeing seeing now that

there's a lot of guys that started then

and kept going

I mean think is really cool and and and

that I'm seeing that happen more often

now is like when people are going to

universities they're like being

introduced to a lot of new things and

hip hop is one of them in fact now hip

hop is kind of being taught in some

universities as like a subject yeah like

a curriculum yeah there's a yeah

I know a couple people that do that I

mean even here in LA you got

I think UCLA and UC Riverside can

swiftly he teaches okay I didn't know

that yeah Wow

yeah though I know my friend Serge from

beets and pieces he teaches out in them

in the Bay Area couple schools I think

um and then there's another guy who's I

think in Chicago area who does it yeah I

mean it's starting to get a lot bigger I

think why not does it - yep all ski Paul

ski okay yeah so yeah it's yeah it just

blows my mind to think about like that

like those guys were there like ones you

know 20 years ago rolling on the ground

yeah they're like oh yeah that's cool

but you know it's just rolling on the

ground but now it's like some stuff

getting taught in university so it's I

don't know it's just cool it's cool to

see that that can change we're

definitely in a time where yeah I guess

hip hip hop culture is being more coming

more to the forefront of I don't know

community pop culture I guess is the

best way to say it

mm-hmm right before it was such an

underground movement and now it's now

it's a university course if that was

offered nowadays and I was still in

school I would totally take it yeah I

probably would do just cuz it's fun to

hear the different viewpoints on this

culture because you know like I grew up

in in Sacramento you know I know you

know somewhat history of everything but

I know it from the point of view in

Sacramento so go into a university

learning it from maybe someone who's

from New York or whatever in you know in

Kent Swift's case hearing where he's

coming from it's like hearing all these

perspectives it gives you a better

understanding of like what what this

culture really is yeah and I think

definitely people who only know hip-hop

music

coming into a class like that would gain

so much stuff because most of my friends

that only know hip-hop through music

they don't know anything about like how

how breaking really helped create that

music in a way and I guess they don't

maybe understand how direct that that

was you know in terms of like the only

reason a break really exists is because

a DJ was like oh I want to see that

dancer go off yeah let me replay this

part of the song and then oh let me rap

to it okay oh now that's hip-hop music

oh dope that's like that direct

connection I don't think a lot of people

understand that and so I'm happy to see

that now there's that's becoming more

the forefront of the hip hop Coleman so

hopefully hopefully casual music

listeners start you know understanding

that too so but anyway so some so from

South Dakota to Wisconsin and then now

to LA were you in any place before

between there yeah okay so I was so in

between college and here in LA I've been

in a bunch of places actually uh been in

Washington DC okay then in West Africa

nice piece of court been in Alaska okay

I've been to from Alaska up into Korea

mm-hmm South Korea that was not North

Korea no you know you can't not allowed

in North Korea

but been to South Korea that was purely

on the fact that I just wanted to

experience the dance culture there okay

I got a job just like his win oh you

know that's man that's that's crazy to

like to just go oh man I'm gonna pick up

everything I'm gonna move to Korea and

like you know just for the dance that's

tight yeah yeah yeah and then and then

now here and then to Minnesota and then

now here in LA so I've been bebop in

quite a bit and so where did Stan's fit

in with that or I guess Drive TV and

then Stan's where did that fit in like

when did that start for you like where

were you

2008 strife started

and that was all because of my college

friends okay my friends from college at

the university Wisconsin we're like hey

they recognize the need right they were

like wheat there's not an official

channel that provides high quality

footage yeah we'll do it yeah you know

and they moved here to LA - okay and

they they're the ones to film background

so what I was a career at that time and

they're like Dan you're in Korea Korea

seems really big can you get a camera

and film for us oh and I'm like sorry

let me let's do this Wow so you kind of

like fell into the film world right so

like they just said here's like you know

go get a camera and you have did before

then have you ever thought that you

would be doing any kind of filming Oh

what No uh sort of I am prior to being

in Korea I was in Africa and Alaska and

um I you know I had a camera and I kept

I did like blogs mm-hmm I had a head of

this thing called a live journal way

back then okay um and by you saying uh

yeah basically just showing people my

life yeah in other countries and it was

fun so I was thinking you know what it's

just be like that in video form okay

yeah I but I didn't go to video school

or anything I my first Kim was a flip

phone those like flip cameras in Korea

and that's where all the Korean strife

footage was car you serious I kid you

not

that's funny oh man I remember going to

a jam back when uh

like cell phones just started having

cameras and they were like you can't but

ya know dude that's crazy they're

filming I mean yeah that's that's really

like the beginnings of YouTube I think

all the footage on there was like

2008-2009 around that time yeah it was

like flip yeah yeah that's yeah but it

was like those big Korean events that

you never see yeah yeah yeah he had the

gamblers you had the gene shows you had

the ti peas you know like old school

rivers old school like everyone wanted

to watch that stuff yeah

that yeah that was me and so you were

the you were the pioneer of putting a

Korean footage out I guess I mean I

guess there's a couple other guys that

were doing it but that's I guess in the

YouTube era that was you Lee you huh so

interesting so then from strife it when

did Stan's come about so ideally we

wanted strife to go to where Stan's was

okay but all the rest of my friends just

kind of lost interest in filming okay

they yeah they they either moved or they

just didn't find interest in breaking or

you know they had other interests yeah

you know and so I was the only one and

so that's when I created Stan's mainly

because you know if you know just for

business purposes you wanted to be an

actual owner I wasn't an actual owner of

strife I guess just helping out at that

time yes okay so you're just you're an

employee of strife and then you you know

I guess you had the vision to create it

to to where you took to where stances

now and so you said okay well I need to

do this if you guys aren't gonna help me

do it

exactly then build stance up owner and

now you have like a couple guys with you

right it sucks starting from scratch

again with like zero views and yeah zero

people it'll come but it came and uh you

know you still keep your real life

connections you still keep you you know

you're friends with this event organizer

with your friends with all these other

b-boys and then definitely like when we

started Stan's a lot of people that were

filmed with me that I recruited to

strife came along okay you know so

that's why we had mad tech out in the

bay he came along to Anderson out in LA

he had my friends out in the UK okay and

then I had another friends in Korea so

we covered a great portion of the world

scene yeah without you know me

physically have to travel there yeah but

you still travel a lot I switch out

quite a bit yeah yeah but you got you

got a good team that's we have a good

team like you know a good standing

yeah good understanding yet

this this whole vision alive and running

and so like I guess how do you see it

expanding do you see it expanding more

to like getting more employees going to

more countries um I've been always

cautious on expanding mainly because

it's hard to keep quality control mm-hmm

you know you have you need to have the

same vision and then at the same time

you need to have like a certain type of

teamwork involved that's you know if

this whole stance fill thing wasn't fun

in the first place I wouldn't be doing

it yeah yeah you know the less so it has

still has to be fun for us yeah for sure

yeah right and so yeah we do we do

expand we were trying to I think I think

at the at this moment we're pretty good

filming events around the world I think

what we are working on next are just

quality stories that you might not hear

hmm within not only dance but other

dancer interests yeah yeah yeah and then

as well as other area

Chandra's that we have a big interest in

such as tricking tricking yeah yeah I

think the tricking is the next big the

next big thing yeah okay yeah um it's

like with all these new countries coming

in I imagine it gets hard to really

juggle that and so yeah it seems like

expanding your company to cover all this

stuff is like probably on the forefront

of like making stance successful and I

guess yeah training your team to you

know keep that same quality and then I

guess like figuring out what works with

these new things like tricking and stuff

because I imagine the way you film and

cover a b-boy event is probably not how

you cover a tricking event maybe there's

some crossover but like there's you

definitely gotta like get involved with

the scene to really understand like

what's okay what's not and and then like

just go full in and then and then

understand that I guess maybe it's not

such a big test but I'm just imagining

me if I was a videographer which I'm not

I'm terrible at this kind of thing but

like I would I would I guess I would

know breaking because I'm a b-boy and I

can like know okay I don't want to jump

in the middle of the circle and like

getting this dudes away but like

tricking I think I would just freakin go

to the back of the room cuz I ain't

trying to get kicked you know what I

mean so it's like but I'm sure that

that's not the best way to get footage

so it's like figuring out where you got

a stand-in like you know what's not

gonna mess them up when they're doing

their thing I feel like that's probably

core to like what you guys need to do

for that there's a lot of crossover it's

pretty good

mainly because though uh you know when

we decided stands to be a movement arts

page it's because we looked at ourselves

and were like well we like dance what

else do you like to do I like to go to a

gymnastics gym and mess around and jump

around okay

let's add that in what else do you like

to do this person likes to skateboard

okay let's add I did what I'll see you

know when we think and so everyone has

like a different interest really draw

upon different influences and likewise

like people trickers and gymnasts they

like to watch dance too

yeah yeah so you're like okay okay this

there's so much crossover between all

these different things I mean like for

one thing I think like music production

and stuff I think it actually crosses

over with dance a lot more than people

think it does like I've started getting

into music production a lot no I know

Tech has too and it's just like I think

as dancers we understand music a lot and

so producing music becomes a lot easier

than I think someone who came in cold

and I would think that I would think the

crossover between a producer coming into

dance would probably be the same I mean

because they obviously understand music

to a very high degree they might not

know how to move their body quite the

same way but that's just a matter of

training a little bit to figure it out

just same same thing

with a b-boy trying a dancer trying to

learn music production it's like you got

to learn some of the music theory and

everything but like once you understand

the tools it's kind of just like get

yourself into like a creative flow state

and just let it go

correct that's like how that's how I've

always been I mean IIIi was a painter a

long time ago and um and that's like how

I would always paint is all just kind of

like get into the mode of painting my

mom my mom is an artist so she kind of

taught me how to do this and then once I

came into dancing it was like the same

kind of thing once I learned like a few

fundamental moves it was just like you

get into this creative flow state and

it's just like the same thing really but

you're just using different tools in a

way so yeah um I don't know I I imagine

there's that that's the same thing with

like filmmaking too like that you kind

of you guys get some kind of creative

you get into some creative groove and

then it just turns into like hours and

hours and hours of you like making this

a really cool project or something

that's totally editing that's basically

what I've been doing for the entire week

editing pretty much yeah yeah I I've

edited a few videos in my life and they

suck a lot but it's yeah it feels the

same way that's the way to get better

you suck a bunch and then you keep on

sucking and yeah yeah just keep doing it

yeah yeah

there's some good quotes on that but I

can't remember but yeah basically yeah

it's the best way to stop sucking I look

at my old videos I'm like what was I

thinking yeah but that was a good idea

so I'll take that little bit I look at

the pot the old podcasts I've I recorded

I'm like what the hell was I thinking

but my god it's getting me to where I

want to be then you're thinking like

people really watched what I did dude

actually I haven't even posted a single

one because I keep looking back and

going oh man

like I'm starting to figure out how to

do podcasting a lot better and I've been

figuring out like how to film better too

and so like now I'm looking at it like

oh I don't want to release these old

ones cuz like I straight-up just didn't

give it I like would walk in I mean like

I had good equipment but yeah I would

come in I

didn't have like a studio I mean I still

don't really have a studio they just

have a freaking blank wall with some

stuff on it but like I straight up would

just bring my equipment to like a

friend's house they wouldn't have

anywhere to put it so we would like

record on the floor and so it was ghetto

as hell but I'm just like oh you know

what that brought us and it's not like

the conversation wasn't good I think it

was good it's just like if you don't see

any video you're like okay this was cool

maybe it was done in a real studio but

you see the footage in like all these

sitting on the freaking carpet so but

yeah I don't know yeah humble roots I

guess is the best way to call it mm-hmm

and I guess you guys have your own your

own humble roots as well so where do you

see yourself going next I mean like you

obviously have a vision of where stance

is going but like what other hobbies are

you into and like how does that involve

with like the rest of your life and like

where do you see that taking you I mean

I see you have a league of Legends like

Keith I you know I I love eSports yup I

love eSports obviously League of Legends

is huge yeah overwatch is huge you know

it's a it's a big scene yeah um and

there's actually crossover between

eSports and like a movement arts - yeah

big I mean it's I mean competitive scene

I would think that there's like a lot of

crossover in terms of like many

different they how people are reacting

to each other some merchants hold on so

eSports um I don't know a lot about

eSports but it's like it's really

intrigued me to see where it is because

it's kind of like I kind of look at it

it's like breaking in a way because like

again when I started playing video games

like Super Smash Brothers when I was

like in middle school or whatever I was

like oh cool we're just gonna go over to

my friends house and just play or

whatever and now it's like there's

legitimate competitions for legitimate

money

it's like broadcast

on the internet and has started around

the same time it started around the same

time so it's like the scenes are kind of

growing I think it's really it comes

down to this digital age I think is it's

it's allowing everything to get around

to more people but it's just so cool to

see all these new communities of you

know competitive sports competitive

whatever out there and and you know

something that I never would have

thought would happen or I like I just

don't know anything about seeing it if

you look at our stance produce live

streams with the commentators and mm-hmm

the way they talk to people and stuff

like that it comes from eSports oh yeah

I kid you not it's um I look at League

of Legends I look at Street Fighter

livestreams I'm like I want that settle

well I want that's it I like how they're

engaging with the audience I you know

then that and that's where totally our

influences come interested you know they

look like they have a somewhat similar

budget to us that's interesting you know

the ugly bar I I'm influenced by eSports

a lot and then you know I'm also

interested in you know other things like

you look at other influences of eSports

how many dance emojis there are in

eSports no no like for tonight

everyone's in everyone's doing this for

tonight moves right

I actually I have a theory that like the

kids now that are learning to break you

know that are young like elementary

school age are gonna start doing

Fortnight moves in as actual breaking

moves I think that's they already you

know yeah they probably already do they

already do that I filmed the battle to

it I filmed the battle two years ago and

this guy just flipped up in the air and

just laying on his side and then did his

little floss move or something yeah it's

like okay it was it was fun it was fun

to see yeah but they already do and you

know it's uh if it gets them hooked to

the scene then yeah yeah it's yeah I

think it's a good thing to see that

stuff I mean there's a lot of like

breaking purists and stuff that go like

oh it's not it's decreasing the rawness

of it but I think that those are just

like old people that

salty or whatever I think seeing well my

perspective is that the if you think

that that's gonna degrade its rawness I

think you weren't raw in the first place

I think that you're you're you're just

you're trying to crap on someone else's

parade this this person sees something

and now they're invested into the scene

I think that's a good thing

and period really like I can't see a

reason why that would be a bad thing

that some what some new people are being

introduced into the dance every every

generation basically every decade that

or so there's there's always like dance

related media out there or names related

trends that that may seem cheesy at the

beginning yeah but it gets young kids

interested yeah you know I've seen their

stories of like really high competitive

dancers that started with you got served

oh yeah and like that movie if you

really saw at me and that was super

cheesy it was a cheese dude but they

started and now they are at the top of

their scene right now and they are

fucking wrong yeah yeah beat Street is

the cheesiest movie ever you know that's

a hot take but battle me Beach Street is

so cheesy it's a dope movie sure but

it's cheesy as hell breaking is breaking

and breaking to electric Boogaloo are

also two of the worst movies ever

I mean cheesy in terms of were worse

than cheesy movies even Flashdance dude

that was probably the first time

breaking was on like a big screen that

movie's cheesy as hell it was a catalyst

and got people to catalyst yup yes so I

mean yeah I don't know I think it's um I

think it's it's great to see that and I

guess with the with the oncoming

Olympics in 2024 which is in Paris I

believe yeah now you're gonna see it on

another stage to a whole new audience I

think we're gonna also see a huge influx

of new b-boys as well there already is

because Olympics yeah and from the the

Junior Olympics right from the June

it's like I try traveling around the USA

just the USA itself

a lot of my friends as dance studios

have had influx of students that just

want to learn yeah you know so many

little kids are enrolling in their dance

studios and it's great yeah I think it's

great too and and that's just the USA

you know Japan is another monster Russia

is another monster China especially I

mean you're just getting kids enrolling

everywhere yeah and these little kids

can fly and yeah you can fly I didn't

even break when he you know he's like I

didn't start breaking the laws maybe

like 14 you got these 10 year olds that

are like flying and stuff so I'm like

dang dude

what is breaking gonna be like when they

are my age I'm 32 I mean maybe maybe

their bodies just gonna be broken but

like if they're 10 years old and can do

like twice as much as I can do dang dude

I don't know I don't know what to say

but they're gonna be crazy yes yes so I

think that's exciting to see that

so I guess once the Olympics rolls

around in 2024 we're gonna see some very

high-level stuff there and I get you

know what I'm curious about actually

with the Olympics and I don't know if

you would be the person to know this

since because you are like a it on the

advisory board or whatever right and so

I'm curious like how they how they plan

to actually do this is it like gonna be

battles as like were used to in the

breaking communities they're gonna be

more like a showcase kind of thing like

like a show or something I know they're

doing what like a 1 one-on-one kind of

situation and then I guess I'm curious

about like how it's being judged and I

don't know maybe maybe yeah so the

catalyst of the Olympics is WDS F world

dance sport Federation mm-hmm

they're the main dance sport you know

organizational group around the world

and they like oversee all the dancing

there so like salsa and correct yeah

yeah

and luckily they've organ they did the

Youth Olympics two years ago yeah last

year they did two other events the WD SF

championship in China and then you had

the world urban games on Budapest so

okay it's and you there's already videos

online of those events okay we we

covered a couple of them and it's it's

just it's really just and they have a

judging system they have you know just

like any normal dance event that you

have like the judges that we're used to

you have the competitors that we were

used to hmm things like that yeah the

DJs and the music that we're used to so

it really isn't any different it isn't

any different than other breaking events

that we have seen okay I guess the only

thing that only difference is that

there's so for me I feel there's a lot

of rounds it's okay

like oh my gosh it was like the ready mo

group stage and then you have a tough 16

to 8 and your people those dancers were

tired those dancers are tired so were

they doing like five round battles every

time or something or it was like it was

like two three round battles every time

starting from group stages I actually

missed that because when I first started

breaking that's how it was it was like

you would go a crap ton of rounds and

your rounds wouldn't be like as long as

they are now and so yeah I mean I think

battles were just longer I don't know

and then now it's like you see one round

battles which to me feels kind of weird

I don't know it kind of works I guess

with what we're doing now but it's it

still feels weird to me but I don't know

that I think that's cool that they're

doing more rounds but it definitely puts

you to the test I can imagine you gotta

be an athlete you have that stamina yeah

you gotta be a gold medal athlete to get

that gold medal yeah yeah but I mean

yeah I guess that comes with the

territory

yeah but no the organisationally your

all the stuff that you see is online

already Youth Olympics in 2022 gonna be

in Dakar Senegal that would be another

warm-up for the Olympics in 24 but I

think

yeah having Paris be the forefront of

this is gonna be great

yeah cuz that's the first time I don't

will be a part of it right yep and it'll

be most likely you'll be they haven't

decided yet already but it's most likely

gonna be one-on-ones okay just keep it

simple

actually I know I know we want to see

crew battles but yeah the first time I

feel it's too much we got is just start

with one on ones first

yeah yeah yeah what what do you like

more as a sidenote

crew battles are won on well Holly I

love crew battles do you know I've

always loved crew battles and another

hot take is like I freakin love watching

routines and know there's something like

purist b-boys that are like routine suck

and stuff but like I don't know I've

always loved routines I'm the crew I

used to be a part of his flexible Flav

oh you guys had great routines yeah dude

we like we're kind of on the I don't

know innovators I guess of the routine

game and so like I don't know I've

always loved doing routines and stuff

and just watching new stuff coming so

like you know I was inflexible Flav

until 2020 no it's 20 2007 I think is

when I stopped 2008 maybe 2009 I don't

know I don't know one of those dates but

like before then it was like we were

always making these routines and like we

would see another crew like starting to

do the same thing once we stopped or

once I got out of the crew then you

started seeing more crews like jinjo and

stuff coming out at that point I think

rivers and gamblers were already like

huge on the routine game and so it's I

don't know a top 9 huge in the routine

game so I don't know I missed that cuz

you don't see it so much anymore I think

everybody used to cut mad cuz all those

crews are winning every I love crew

battles because like like Saints like

same example your crew you had when your

crew members

well associate chram it was dizzy right

oh yeah he was he was not really flex

play but he was like he would enter a

lot of battles he understood the the

Flex Flay battle

yeah ala D which is like you're not

going you're you you it's like there's a

certain way to win

yeah yeah right and whether it is

through teamwork or whether it's it's

not the hardest move it's just how you

do it yeah and that's what and that's

what made like crew battles so more much

more intriguing you have someone do a

crazy move and the other team will

respond with something totally different

yeah hmm what the routines what I always

liked about routines was that it was

another element to control the battle

yeah like with one-on-ones

your arsenal is kind of your limitation

to controlling the battle like you see

this guy attack you in a certain way you

can do a lot of things to to respond

right but like with a routine you can

almost like bulldoze them a little bit

because they throw something at you even

if they threw a routine at you then you

turn around and eat and you can go

alright here's this crazy trick boom

here's another crazy trick here's this

really cool choreography set and now

boom flip over BAM there's a dude and

he's just gonna like do what a normal

b-boy would do in like go off and

respond to everything that you threw at

him it's it's just kind of like extra

icing on the cake Joe to say that you

know we we're controlling this battle

now you know and so that's why some of

the greatest battles in in history I

think have always been like crew battles

where you see something like you'll see

one crew really controlling it then all

of a sudden boom it's like the tide

totally shifts and I feel like a lot of

b-boys maybe felt that routines were

like hacks in a way it gets to refer to

like eSports like they're using hacks

now because it's like it's so effective

to like to draw another crew into your

into your own into your strategy to win

if they can't respond with routines well

and usually crews can't it's like oh no

I'm gonna lose now you know you got to

throw some really crazy thing you got to

have pocket take every freaking round

after that - like really respond oh so

it's like I don't know I definitely

think they they felt like it was hacks

but but you can tell bad routines you

can yeah there's definitely

you can beat bad routines with a good

soul around yeah sure but it's hard to

be a really good routine with a solo and

I think that just goes to show you that

like that's how powerful a good routine

really is and so I think to embrace it

and say okay I'm gonna use this as part

of my strategy is is is something that I

think the whole community was onto

something when it was really sparking

off and then when there was this big

surge in people like not liking and I

think it kind of killed it a little bit

so but I'm seeing it happen more so I'm

excited to see maybe like some crew

battles in the future with maybe even in

the Olympics yeah I like watching crew

battles this year you can this you're

gonna have five and five freestyle

session okay cool pseudo crew battle

yeah I went my personal favorite event

to film is battle year okay I love

watching battle year do you like it cuz

of the shows uh the shows are cool I

like seeing my favorite shows actually

are seeing countries that don't get a

chance to be on stage oh yeah like so

you get to see the Senegal's you get to

see like Madagascar you can oh yeah yeah

like country said alright normally on

the stage see it those are beautiful fun

and then I like to see you know

sometimes I like to see the battles

where you have a country that you didn't

think of make it you know last year last

year Venezuela came all like Venezuela

ya know when two years ago was like

Thailand uh-huh you know like that those

are funny yeah whenever I see stuff like

that I'm like dude they got breaking

over there and I mean like that's kind

of an ignorant thing to say but

especially because my brother Vince

sanity he's he teaches he has all his

YouTube videos yeah and he he always

shows me like where his videos are being

watched in a lot of them are like in

these crazy third-world countries I've

never heard of you know and so but then

seeing them come to like the stage of

battle of the year and you're like oh

these guys are like really good - yeah

crazy so

I don't know what I guess what in battle

I don't really haven't really seen a lot

of battle of the year recently but do

they still do those shows the show

yup cases okay cuz I always thought that

that was such an interesting way to like

weed out crews - you're like top four

they probably do like top eight they do

top six now 600 that word the first two

crews no I'm gonna buy Oh

gonna buy and then you have four

wildcard interesting so then the wild

carves battle and then they link up with

the first first place in second place

crews tie okay that's that's crazy yeah

that's because yeah I used to be just

top four yeah and you know they came all

that way

yeah and what do you want to see more

battle yeah no there was a there's a

story I think of like cuz the US was

banned for a long time for coming

because I think one of the crews I'm not

gonna say who was but they came and

apparently like destroyed like a hotel

room because they didn't make it to the

battles and thought that they should

have and so then they were like you know

u.s. is banned and then I think it took

like good five years or something to let

the u.s. back in so not that not that

they should have done that or anything

like that's definitely a bad way to act

but you know now you know having more

ability to make it at us top categories

I think it's like nice because because

really like breaking has expanded so

much you're gonna have so many people

ending I mean on all these big

competitions I'm always seeing like four

hundred people entering or something and

it's like geez man that's crazy I'm used

to like 10 people and 20 people entering

or whatever you know it's just more more

interest more more people interested in

you know yeah and you haven't gone

cheyna yet yeah you've got full days 13

hours of prelims Wow

that's I mean that's insane yeah I mean

yeah I guess yeah I guess that's another

topic by itself I went to ibe and they

had a whole day of like

prelims I remember and it took a long

freakin time it wasn't 13 hours but feel

like it was like five or six hours or

something like that just like kind of in

the same it's like a jam in itself you

know yeah kind of like you gotta win

this Jam out of like fifty people and

you know they have like a bunch of

different groups of that you gotta win

that and then you're going against all

these other people that won their group

of fifty the next day or whatever that's

that's insane so but but it's an

exciting time I think for breaking for

sure going back to the Olympics I had

another question about it because like

so you're saying that Olympics is you

know for the most parts as far as you

can see it's very similar to the events

that we are used to but I'm also I'm

curious about like the rules that they

have in terms of like who can

participate because I know there's like

you know in others in other Olympic

sports there's a lot of stuff like

doping in the event in drugs and stuff

and like I don't know not to put the the

breaking scene under the bus but there's

a lot of people that use drugs and so

I'm like I feel like the Olympic

Committee would probably be like you

know what I I don't know I'm not really

familiar with drug testing I don't know

much about it but I would assume there's

some kind of requirement I mean luckily

the Olympic start this year 2020 and

similar sports such as skateboarding

will be there for the first time is it

really yup skateboarding Oh surfing so

everything - yep so just keep your eyes

open that's if you see what happens yeah

I mean you can't say that people that

skateboard don't do drugs yeah I mean

it's prominent in I imagine every cloudy

in sport but yes sir us snowboarding

like oh sure you know so just keep your

eyes open see what happens and yeah

basically like skateboarding is great

because you you you you take a look at

what its gonna happen at the Olympics

yeah and you're like okay similarly

that's

what will happen to breaking in 2024

mm-hmm in terms of you know media and

yeah coverage and things like that yeah

I I guess I'm I'm a little bit scared

because like I know that the breaking

scene kind of needs to be on its best

behavior a little bit when that comes

around or else you know the Olympics

could just be like ah these guys are too

hard to work with so you know I know it

and the way the reason I'm bringing this

up is cuz like I know like the stuff

that happened with like you deaf and how

Steve Graham decided to just kind of

come cancel the whole thing really and

that was really kind of a decision I

mean it was a personal decision for him

but a lot of it came from he was getting

so much backlash from the community and

stuffiness like I don't want to deal

with this anymore

yeah and unfortunately he you know had

to just terminate the the whole set of

events and and I guess really his

business so I I don't want that to

happen when the Olympics comes down

because I think that that'll be just a

huge punch to the face of the whole

community because there's so many I

would say like 95% of the community

wants to see this once I see the

community grow wants to see more people

involved want to see fans want to see

just I guess it in the Olympics it's

like an accomplishment to the scene to

see that happen but then the small 5% of

people that are like I'm too raw for

this could easily ruin it for everybody

and so I and that's why I'm I was asking

the question about drug test cuz it's

you know I want everybody to to have the

right information going into it if

they're thinking about competing in it

just be aware that maybe that is gonna

be something that's involved with it's

okay if you're a drug addict get clean

dude not just for the Olympics but for

your own health but so but yeah I think

being the scene being on his best

behavior I think will be the best way to

really like prove that we are worth it

because I think showing showing the

Olympics not that we need to like prove

anything but I do think that first

impressions matter a lot and this is

gonna be one of the first impressions I

mean I guess we saw it with the Junior

Olympics but I imagine you know these

kids you know they have their parents to

like stop acting up yeah but we're gonna

have a lot of adults that I feel I feel

we're pretty good on a big stage I mean

yeah I think so too you take a look at

big stage events like BC ones there yeah

everyone's on their best behavior

yeah you know every I've just heard a

lot more chatter about the Olympics cuz

there's just a lot of like people going

oh it's run by you know whatever salsa

dance whatever and like I don't know

what you're talking about but you know

it seems to me like it's gonna be like

any other event just you know now it's

got the backing of a big organization

and it's on a bigger it's on this

different stage I guess yeah but it's

it's business as usual

I would imagine same kind of music same

kind of judges same kind of thing

everything you would expect just

different audience Madrid you know or a

mixture of the new audience and the

existing audience so I don't know it's

exciting and a little scary I think I

don't know I mean I'm I might just be 2

or being worried for no reason but but

like I said just take a look at snow

skateboarding this year yeah and

there'll be something similar yeah ok I

guess skateboarding has been on a large

stage for such a long time I mean with

the X Games and stuff so I think a lot

of people I mean in a way skateboarding

is probably 20 to 30 years ahead of the

in the pop culture aspect as breaking

because it's been on that stage since

maybe like the 90s or like maybe mid 80s

or something and at that point breaking

was barely even knew a thing at that

point so but anyways yeah I don't know

maybe I'm just rammed

but it it's something that that worries

me a little bit about it and I guess

also judging because um eivol eivol ways

had a thing about judging because it

this is like a art form and in a way

there's a lot of opinion that is

involved with a judge's decision of who

wins and I've always been curious how

that would play out on a larger stage or

like you know when an organization such

as the Olympics is backing an event if

they're coming in and going like ok well

how do you guys judge this and they go

oh you know we point to the guy we

thought we want and then they go oh well

why and then you go give me like some

quantitative curriculum or give me some

yet quantitative reason for why they won

it's really hard to do that I think I

mean you can we can say okay it's on a

point system we're giving you this

amount of points for this type of move

or this you know this particular

category but I think when it starts

breaking down like what you're judging

on it kind of falls apart to where

you're just going like I like what that

dude did over what that dude is so it it

bothers me a little bit cuz I think if

you know the Olympics starts like really

digging into what that is like what how

they would react to that I don't know if

maybe there's other sports Olympic

sports that are judged in a similar way

I mean if you're skating figure skating

I was thinking like because you're a

purely numbers opinion-based sometimes

yeah I know but with with figure skating

a lot of times as they say okay here's

our routine that we're doing and then we

have these big moves at this point this

point this point so they know what to

watch for and then ultimately they're

grading them on how they land that those

moves and so they have a point system on

that and then they'll give them another

score on like their creative creativity

and like all the dancing and stuff that

was involved with that I think that

comes into that score so there's like a

small part of it that's on that kind of

subjective scale and I guess that works

I guess it's also kind of with floor

routines for

for Olympia Olympia gymnasts it's kind

of the same thing but I was trying to

see how that relates to braking and it

was hard for me to figure that out

because it's not like you're going up to

these judges and saying hey I'm gonna

hit every flare flare windmill 90 and

they're like okay I'll watch for that

you do it dude and then you're gonna get

a creative score for like whatever other

thing you're gonna do but I mean a lot

of it is how you're responding to

somebody right and in a way I think it's

more like combat sports because you do

something to me and I'm gonna react to

it in a way right and then I do

something to you and you're gonna react

to it away so to me it seems like some

kind of merge between those two things

and I just don't I don't know judging

has always been kind of like on my mind

about how you know because I think

that's probably one of the other hinge

points in making taking breaking from

where it is now to the like you know NBA

level sport or something MMA level sport

I think the way we've always judged jams

and events now has always worked and we

haven't really questioned it too much

but I think when it moves into you know

bigger space where there's like actual

casual audience they're gonna go like

how do I know how do I judge this myself

you know what I mean in like with you

know like UFC fighting casual fans do

understand that you know because they

there's there's a lot of just criteria

that is spelled out on how to make that

you know how to how to I guess get your

win right and breaking I don't think

there is that like because I just

imagine if I showed a battle to my mom

who knows barely anything about breaking

I mean she knows something but I don't

think she could judge a battle but if I

said who wins and it was like close I

don't know if she could probably figure

that out you know because there's not

really a quantitative way to do that and

also I think there's an argument to be

made that it there doesn't need to be a

on a tative way because this is again an

art form and I do think that when a

judge says I like that's what this guy

did and his around more than that I

think that's actually a legitimate way

of judging because again it's like

judging a painting two paintings that

are completely different from each other

you might be like I like the

brushstrokes in that and that shit looks

like crap to me you know that's why I

like that one more and then someone else

could be like oh I like you know the

colors in this and not that one that's a

legitimate point of view too so I don't

know the the merger between those I

think is is something that's always been

in my mind of them like we're breaking

is gonna be in I don't know if there

ever will be a solution to that and I I

don't imagine you you have a solution to

it either partly judging so complex it's

very common I'm just happy I'm just

doing video yeah yeah yeah there's

everyone has a different judging format

and a judging system definitely yeah so

so yeah I just figured that maybe the

Olympics was gonna be more of like a

kind of strict on like what they're

doing well I mean they use the system

that originated from renegade and storm

and okay so I mean like I said look at

the Youth Olympics okay that judging

system will be familiar with that

they're still in play it there's a lot

it's a lot of numbers it's a slider

based system oh I'll have to look into

that YUM

you said that was from renegade and

storm renegade storm there's a couple

other people that involved with I would

say neke from rugged 's okay would be

helping out but if you look in the Youth

Olympics if you look at the WDS F

championship from last year in China

they all use it so it's still I mean I

would assume buy-in within four years or

so when 2024 they would have a more firm

yeah and there's a big handbook to it to

a big hand but everyone has to be

briefed I wouldn't hit a handbook I kind

of want to read it it is online actually

okay yeah yeah

okay cool um yeah I'll have to look into

that yeah cuz that that's that's

something that I've been like really

talking to so many people about and it's

it's kind of something that you know we

all are kind of like stuck on and I

imagine everybody's stuck on it but like

at least seeing you know where we're at

now maybe building on that cuz I know

dizzi has his system

yeowch I think is a good start my issue

with his system was always that like and

for people who don't know it's there's

like five categories and you have one

judge for each of those categories I

think that's like a pretty good start

it's my problem was always that you kind

of have this one you know monarch of

that particular thing that particular

category but ultimately I think every

all five of those judges probably have

something good to say about that

category so i i imagine maybe that's how

Stormin and renegade system maybe

factors more into like every judges may

be judging on each of those categories

right okay yeah cuz I think that that

would probably be a little bit fairer

way of doing it or at least like more of

a mud majora majority rule type of way

of doing it

this this I had this one idea a long

time ago and it was to just have like 20

judges and hear me out cuz I know it

sounds crazy how do you afford 20 judges

I don't know you can't afford it I don't

know I don't know yeah but cuz breaking

kind of started as like you know a

combat between two dancers in a circle

with a crowd and usually you were trying

to like burn the other guy in front of

this crowd to you know get a response

from the crowd so in a way the crowd is

already the judge from the very

beginning of what

breaking was so it kind of makes sense a

lot in now that we're in this more you

know well-defined Creek competitive

world

that maybe it makes sense to just have a

crowd of judges right twenty people

standing around the circle or whatever

and they are judging as if they were a

crowd member but instead of it just

being like your mom and you know your

grandma or whatever to around in the

circle it's like storm and you know

renegade or whoever all these other you

know well-versed dancers and people

who've been in the scene for a long time

knowledgeable people in that crowd so I

don't know that was just a weird idea

house throwing out and then kind of like

you're just saying okay well the

majority of these people said this guy

won okay maybe that's the way to do it

then you know at least it at least like

gets rid of the argument a little bit

where they go oh yeah this was only

three panel judge and those two judges

don't like me or something you know I

don't know but that's always bothered me

when people say that like I think you're

just complaining but well anyways I

think we've been going for about an hour

I want to probably close the show out so

in closing like do you have any other

hobbies outside of hip hop in you know

how does that like kind of go into your

life and you know I mean like like like

I said already I love eSports you love

these sports yeah I a lot of my hobbies

I draw is I you can I draw you know

insight into what I do so I take a

little bit of what I see in eSports and

throw into stance coverages I travel a

lot travel a lot I make a lot of travel

videos you know apart from working you

know with dances stuff like that I do

freelance travel videos mm-hmm

I work with hotels I work with travel

companies tourism bureaus yeah and we

create you know commercials like that

yeah and so a lot of times for example I

just got back from Mexico okay and I was

there to cover an event for a week and

then I stayed in next

week just to travel around and film

travel videos okay that's that's awesome

so you know things like that I I draw

interest in yeah yeah I heard you're

also filming um

aces wedding yes I do

I do the occasional wedding when I first

moved to LA I I filmed a lot of weddings

and so yes I I do weddings and I

actually learned how to do weddings from

a b-boy from the bay by the name Natron

oh yeah nature own yeah nature does a

lot of wood he had a business with a

couple other guys from his cousin giardi

is that were his brother Jordie I don't

think it's his cousin but when I started

filming weddings for the first time out

I went to I I messaged me Tron's like

hey show me one of your wedding videos

and I'm gonna copy this exactly because

I have no idea what wedding videos are

really this is weddings videos are good

and and you know what in terms filming

weddings have helped me film breaking

events too

yeah because it made me understand like

when to anticipate moments oh yeah

certain important moments whether

they're doing something or they're

talking something oh yeah or something

is about to happen that you can you can

anticipate it yeah it's like you got you

gotta read the whole room and know like

what's about to happen

correct you gotta be in the spot where

you're like I guess you're invisible in

the sense that you're not ruining the

moment but you're also in the best spot

to capture it yes yeah imagine there's a

there's an art form to Perth exactly

said it just right yeah so it has helped

me so just filming so many types of

variety of things help me in filming you

know stance

yeah well tight dude yeah well great I

think that was that was dope I I think

that was a learned a lot from from you

and like what you're all about

thank you that's been great do you have

any last minute shoutouts while I close

this show out Thank You Kurt for having

me on

yes yeah thank you for coming dude I

really appreciate it

yeah trying to get this podcast out very

soon so I'll let you know when I do that

yes and then you know it'd be great to

have you on again I'm trying to maybe

figure out a way to get like multiple

people in a podcast yeah we have so many

of I mean more than more than happy to

cover on a variety of topics yeah you

know um I know I know later in April I'm

going to an event in Toronto and I'm

giving I'm giving a little mini workshop

there on social media ya know like how

to get views how to what are what's

what's exactly the algorithm way or how

you you know quote unquote things like

that you know like the motored chef he's

a good friend of mine he's like Dan I

want you to give you a talk and have

people have an insight on how to create

a brain and how to do this let's do it I

need to go to that cuz I don't know crap

about social media like I actually just

frickin don't use social media yeah like

now that I'm starting this podcast I'm

like oh I guess I gotta learn how to do

that my brother's pretty good at it

Joe I can learn some stuff from him but

I could definitely use the help on that

coz I'll be hitting you up well thank

you uh for for joining me today and

thank you guys for listening sorry this

just sucks

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you

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