The Good Fight: Francis Fukuyama on the World in 2025

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In a tour d'horizon, Yascha and Frank discuss the fall of Assad, the rise of China, the crisis in Europe, and what awaits the United States under Trump.

Francis Fukuyama is a political scientist, author, and the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University. Among Fukuyama’s notable works are The End of History and the Last Man and The Origins of Political Order. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. He is a member of Persuasion’s Board of Advisors.

In this week's conversation, Yascha and Frank discuss Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy's flawed plans for reforming the federal bureaucracy (and how to actually reform it); why crises in France and Germany bode ill for Europe; and what the public reaction to the assassination of Brian Thompson says about healthcare in America.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Brendan Ruberry

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