81. Growing Forward Podcast featuring Kyle Cox

Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast with Paul Casey

Paul Casey:

John Maxwell's says, "If change doesn't make you uncomfortable, it's not really change." There might be like, baby change. But, when we're talking about change in the seminar, we're talking about, like substantial change for your project, or your team, or an organization.

Speaker 2:

Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and it could be individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.

Paul Casey:

It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me today for our episode with Kyle Cox. Kyle is the Executive Director and Chief Librarian of the Mid-Columbia Libraries. And when I asked something quirky or interesting about Kyle, he told me about Scotland, and that's where he spent some of his childhood, but it made a conflict in his childhood. Kyle, tell us a little bit more.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah, so I spent a couple years of my childhood in Scotland. Actually, in St. Andrews, Scotland, the home of golf.

Paul Casey:

Wooh.

Kyle Cox:

I did got this PhD from St. Andrews. So, I moved from Western Washington as a fairly small child... To Scotland where I was also a fairly small child. But, it was an interesting experience. We were Americans, there were very few Americans in St. Andrews. At that time, you had basically grad students and their families, and Air Force officers and their families that were stationed to the RF base.

Kyle Cox:

So, there were very many of us. We were reminded constantly that we were Americans in a very negative way. I think, there's a lot of fun in the UK of reminding someone to yank. But, then, we came back from Scotland, I had a very thick Scottish accent. I only need metric because I have been single for so long over there. I even have forgotten some American history and basic American stuff.

Kyle Cox:

So, everyone, when I came back, including at school, thought I was actually Scottish, no one believed that I was an American. And, for me, as a child, it was a very formative experience because I was a stranger in a strange land. And then, I was a stranger in my own land.

Paul Casey:

Wow.

Kyle Cox:

Until, kind of feeling like a stranger in both places, after basically going through acculturation and socialization and Scotland made me, so that I was no longer an American.

Paul Casey:

Wow.

Kyle Cox:

But, it really again, formed a lot of my wife experience a kid, good and bad, honestly.

Paul Casey:

And probably, funded a good therapist for couples. All right. You got to do the accent. You have some to talk about the library on your accent.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah. And so, I can usually do a pretty good Scottish accent, not always on a command. The town... I don't know if you remember the song, and I would walk 500 miles?

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

They lived in Fife, which is where we lived. And the town they lived in was called Otter Box in Scotland. So, Otter Box in Scotland. That's a real word, by the way. But, Scotland and it was very specific and it's a wonderful broke. Watch Outlander, if you want more Scottish accents. I probably am not the greatest at it anymore.

Kyle Cox:

But, the plus side though, Paul, is I can watch a lot of stuff from the BBC and have no problem understanding what they're saying. And a lot of other people need subtitles. So, I guess that's my expense superpower as a result of living in the US.

Paul Casey:

All right. Tri-City Influence listeners, if you need a translator, you've got Kyle on your side.

Kyle Cox:

You can have me translate BBC shows, if you need me.

Paul Casey:

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Paul Casey:

So, welcome, Kyle. I was privileged to meet you through Leadership at Tri-Cities which I've been able to save for many of my guests for this podcast over the years because they are the influential people here in Tri-Cities. And you have served on the board, they're even class director and they're excited about being the next class director again, and...

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

... adding value wherever you go. So, let's look at our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Tell us a little bit about the libraries, and then a little bit more about what you do for about 80% of your average day.

Kyle Cox:

Sure. The combi libraries is an inner County Library District. So, we serve Ben Franklin counties. We also serve Adams County. So, we have 12 branches to cross but in Franklin County. The only place we don't have service is City of Richland, which has their own library. But we go from Prosser, the West all the way up to Columbus to the East, which is about halfway to Pullman.

Kyle Cox:

And then, two branches in candlewick, two branches in Pascoe, serve a lot of people, over a quarter million residents. Actually, are served by MCL. So, what do I do? I'm the Executive Director, the Chief Librarian. Most of what I do every week is coaching people. That's a huge part of my job. We have over 120 employees.

Kyle Cox:

We have, again, over 12 work sites. We serve a lot of people, different needs. Obviously, it's not just books at the library. We help people in so many different parts of their lives, finding jobs, helping people write resumes, navigating the internet, also checking out lots of books and movies, et cetera.

Kyle Cox:

But, again, primarily, what I spend most of my time on is coaching people. I have a fantastic team of really good people who know what they're doing, which makes my job easy. But, it's more about coaching. A big part of it is, obviously, resource allocation, monitoring resources, seeing where they're going, are we accomplishing what we're setting out to do.

Kyle Cox:

And then, I think the third big part of what I spend my time doing is looking for opportunities and threats. I think most really good CEOs are looking at the outside. They're scanning the environment to seeing what's out there in terms of how we could better serve our customers, how we could better serve our region, how we could leverage partnerships, to better serve people, with existing partners, other agencies.

Kyle Cox:

And then, also, what's coming down the pike, what could threaten us in our ability to fulfill our mission. And so, that means lots of news. I read a lot of news, I'm got to, what, read a lot of trade news, especially. I'm a news junkie. So, I consume a lot of news that like news, past. Obviously, 12 plus months has met a lot of news, just consuming constantly.

Kyle Cox:

So, again, I would say coaching people, resource allocation, and then constantly scanning for opportunities and threats. That's probably the three most common things I do in my week.

Paul Casey:

I love how you lead with coaching as number one. Obviously, I'm a coach. And so, that's music to my ears when a leader says that. Coaching, of course, is a style of leadership.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

And I just think it gets the best reception from your team because it's this arm round mentality of, "Hey, let's go towards this goal together." And I love how you lead with that. Why do you love what you do?

Kyle Cox:

I think at the end of the day, I think you can't love what you do 100% of the time. And it's more about finding the why. And, sometimes, again, everyone, including CEOs and tech breakers, et cetera, have to be reminded there why. One of the things that comes to mind frequently is, I was on the State Library Board for six years. We have meetings all over the state. I went to Seattle and Olympia quite a bit.

Kyle Cox:

I had a little bit of break time between flights and my meetings. And so, I went to my childhood library in West Seattle that I loved very much. I have very fond memories of. It's a beautiful old Carnegie building. And I had not been there for 20 plus years. And so, I thought, "You know what? I'm going to go to my library after being in hours of library meetings." And I walking into the up, those steps into this very old, beautiful brick building, I was very much overwhelmed by how much I loved being in that space and how many memories I had of learning.

Kyle Cox:

I am a lifelong learner. I love learning. If I'm not learning, I'm actually not very happy, quite frankly. I know that of myself. And I'm reminded of being a small, again, a small child walking up to what I thought was a huge building, which in retrospect was not that big. But, to me, it was gigantic. And just remembering that I could find anything I ever wanted to learn about or read about or listen to, and that people at the library are not there to tell me what is good or bad, but just to help me find that.

Kyle Cox:

And, I'll be honest, I was very little overwhelmed by the positive feelings that I had. That reminds me of why I do what I do. In our country, we are privileged... People forget this, we have a right to information in this country. Libraries exist to help people find information to learn, to escape, to enjoy. We don't even care why you're doing it. But, we have an obligation to provide you with that experience.

Kyle Cox:

Why brace people forget in our country are the most used cultural organizations, in almost every community go to. You don't think about it, because we're quiet. We're not as self-imposing or obvious or loud. If we're doing our job well, you're having a seamless experience. It's positive, you're getting what you need.

Kyle Cox:

And so, I think, for me, I love what I do, because I can help others feel the way that I felt as a child. And that, I feel whenever I could, walking through the steps, I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, there's literally anything I want to learn about, or I want to read about, or I want to experience." And that makes, I think lives more meaningful, more impacted, more aware of others.

Kyle Cox:

I think that the more that you learn, the more empathy you build in yourself and towards others. And I think that that's, again, an underlying human need that we have that we frequently overlook, because we're too busy dealing with everything else. Libraries do wonderful things on relatively little money compared to a lot of the other services that we fund to the public sector. But, we do it because we care about others. We care about our community. And, ultimately, we believe that information and knowledge helps make people have a better life and enjoy their lives more. That's why I love what I do.

Paul Casey:

Makes me want to go to the library right now.

Kyle Cox:

You should, Paul. Why aren't you at the library right now? And, of course, we have a fantastic... We have Libby...

Paul Casey:

That's right.

Kyle Cox:

... that means so people use digital resources now because of COVID. There was a period where we couldn't even check out anything physically for about five months, it was crazy. But, now, again, we have so many people every single day. I use it, audio books, eBooks, magazines, it's all there, and it's all on your tablet or phone. If it's not checked out, you can get an under 30 seconds, typically. So...

Paul Casey:

Yeah, tell the listeners about Libby because I know some of our listeners do use Audible or maybe some other pie graph.

Kyle Cox:

And I do too, I subscribe to Audible. I hope that's okay to say. I know my kids both love audiobooks. And so, and, sometimes, because of how digital publishing works, we can't as a library always get digital materials...

Paul Casey:

Sure.

Kyle Cox:

... for specific imprints like Amazon's, Imprint, doesn't always release or sell to library.

Paul Casey:

Okay.

Kyle Cox:

So, there is complications. But, Libby is the app that you can download. What you would do is, if you have an MCL card, you just basically sign in with your card information. The access to our entire collection, which is it's one of the biggest in the state. We started really early back in 2009. That's before most people... And we've just been putting money into it, and resources every single year.

Kyle Cox:

During COVID, because we were able to be open to the public, we shifted quite a bit of money, almost a quarter million dollars just to the new materials for digital...

Paul Casey:

Wow.

Kyle Cox:

... because the demand was so, so high. So, yeah, demo Libby on your app store, you'll log in with your library account information. And Paul is showing you right now, it's fantastic. But, honestly, the nice thing too is that there's no late fees. We don't have late fees anymore, anyway. But, it will check itself back in, if we even tell you want to renew this, if no one's waiting for it, you can get it renewed, it's a really fast, convenient way of doing it.

Kyle Cox:

Again, not just eBooks, but also audio books in both English and Spanish. And we're working in other languages, too. We have picture books for kids and early beginning readers really chapter books. And then, a huge magazine collection, which I'm really excited about. Magazines are in that weird period of, are they going to survive or not?

Kyle Cox:

And because of the digital platform, there's a great way to consume magazines without feeling like you're killing half a forest just to get your magazine fixed in every month.

Paul Casey:

Man, it's so good, so good. I love how you said leaders are learners. And when we're learning, we're growing. And you have all created the atmosphere of learning there in the library. And it is one of the first things, I think of when I think about where do I go to learn? Where do I go to grow? And that's fantastic.

Paul Casey:

So, let me go there with you. So, leaders have to have a growth mindset, which you do. And I can't tell you how many of my guests when I asked the very last question of how do you want to gain more influence? They say something along the lines of keep learning, keep growing, keep professionally developing. So, how do you keep evolving as a leader, Kyle? What's in your professional development plan?

Kyle Cox:

I think part of it is a good indicator if I'm growing is, if I'm uncomfortable.

Paul Casey:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle Cox:

Honestly, I think that we... In our society, our experience is designed to be as comfortable as possible. I think that private sector, public sector, it's trying to be as comfortable as possible. So, what I like to do quite frankly, is again, I consider a lot of news, I read a lot of time looking for new things and thoughts. There's a couple of places I go to for professional's sources, some really good blogs that I really love because they're already kind of a thought leader on that.

Kyle Cox:

But, what I have found, though, is that for me to evolve, I do need to be a little uncomfortable. I need to have something that challenges me. Sometimes, with app, especially if I become a little too uncomfortable with an idea, I'll have to hit pause, and I need to come back to it. But, I have done enough work on myself that I'm aware of that.

Kyle Cox:

And for me, it's also figuring out why am I uncomfortable because of this? What about this is making me uncomfortable? Frequently, when someone has a great idea, it's not because they want to make you mad, or alienate you or exclude you. It's because there's a need that you don't fully understand yet. I think that's part of it. It's figuring out, how can I better understand other's needs or where they're coming from?

Kyle Cox:

And I think as I understand that, more and more, and it's something I'm going to be working on until I die. It helps me grow as a person. Again, I think empathy is so important. It is a trait that we frequently overlook in leadership development. As I've told, a lot of my staff, like some of the stuff that you're working on to be a leader at work is going to make you a better human being, and we are one unit. We are not... I tried doing that. I think, a lot of leaders have tried doing that, where you think, what, this is business mode. This is personal mode. This is parenting mode. We're all the same person.

Kyle Cox:

And so, as you're working on things, and you're learning about things, and sometimes, confronting things that you don't particularly like, as you work on that, and as you consider it, and as you begin practice those skills, and that awareness over and over again, you're going to be better in general, and you're going to hopefully, improve all parts of your life because you can't be great at one thing, and horrible another because those innate skills are so connected.

Kyle Cox:

You mentioned coaching. Coaching, again, as I did more and more coaching, I think with my own staff, I saw myself getting more coaching focused with the kids, with my kids a little bit more. And so, it's this idea, I tell this to myself all the time, we are one person. You can't get really good at this one part. I mean, I guess you can, I would not recommend it. Because you're compartmentalizing different parts of your personality, which is not healthy.

Kyle Cox:

But, again, the more that you engage with all parts of yourself, and build up again, more self-awareness, more empathy, so that you can understand the fact that if I get offended or upset or uncomfortable, where is that coming from? Because typically, it's not the source. The source is not intended to do that to me. Again, it could, chances are it won't.

Kyle Cox:

And I feel like that's how I grow is by finding a little room for growth. I like being challenged. My wife has said that point blank, if I am bored, I get complacent. And so, I like having a stretch goal because it makes me feel the need to work there. Again, sometimes, I have to hit pause and say, "Okay, you're getting too upset about this, come back to this in 24 hours or come back to this in a week." But, I think it's the quest of self-improvement.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

I think, where you just have to constantly be looking at the fact that, again, not everyone is setting out to make your life harder or to whatever you think, but in the moment, we might feel that way. So, yeah, I hope that answered the question.

Paul Casey:

Yeah, it's good stuff. It reminds me of the, like the red, yellow and green zones that we can have where green is just, we're in that productivity. It feels really comfortable, almost too easy some complacency sets in. Yellow is that stretch zone that somebody won't call it fun, comfortable, right? It's where you have to...

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

... try to put on a little bit of a smirk, smile and say, "Alright, I'm going to go into this zone where I'm a little uncomfortable, because I know I need to push myself with a challenge. And then, red zone, you don't want to go there because that's the burnout zone where you just...

Kyle Cox:

Exactly.

Paul Casey:

... out or freak out, and go into a panic attack. So, we just need more yellow zone in our life. And it sounds like you like to go there.

Kyle Cox:

I do. I do. The challenge, though, is that when you've been in yellow and red zones a lot, sometimes, you don't always recognize that a green zone is a good place to be too.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

I think that's the other piece too, is that, again, there's this... We're socialized over our entire lives as to what a leader or a boss or whatever you want to call is. And I think part of that for, especially in your 20s is, you're busy. You're constantly busy. But if I'm busy, I'm productive. If I busy, I'm impactful. If I'm busy, you know what I mean? It's this whole idea that I have to constantly be in yellow right up to the edge of red as much as possible to be like this, on the move, impactful leader. And I think that we also have to make time to enjoy the green zones that we have.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

I think frequently, we undervalue the green zones during times that we have because I think that's how you help feed your own individual needs is that, it doesn't have to be yellow all the time. It doesn't have to be bright orange, whatever color you want to use. But, I think, that's also that means stepping back and learning about yourself, and what your own needs are. And in addition to the needs of your team, just being able to say, sometimes, it's good to have green.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

And, sometimes, it's not always a negative to be able to have time where you can breed, where you cannot feel like you're constantly stretching or pulling or pushing yourself or others or a project.

Paul Casey:

Yeah, that's good because... And if you're listening, and you're an achiever, you totally know what Kyle's talking about because it's always like continuous improvement, on to the next thing, push, push, push. And the green zone can both be a strength zone, or it could be a recovery zone...

Kyle Cox:

Exactly.

Paul Casey:

... or just pull back, and then get out of overdrive for a while, just stay in drive. And now, let's go to a break. And when we come back, I'm sure the green zone is also helpful for your mental and emotional wellness.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

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Paul Casey:

So, Kyle, to avoid burnout negativity, we probably do need to go into green zone, how do you feed your mental and emotional health and wellness on a regular basis?

Kyle Cox:

That's a good question. It's something that I struggle with, I think. I think that... I don't want to say it's the why of productivity because that's a little too strong of a word. But, I think it's making time for self-care and space. It's making time for green zones. I worked with an executive coach for many years. I had a great experience with them. And part of it was making sure that you create a great sense because I was so used to being in yellow. It was being able to say,"You know what? I don't need to be running five things right now. I don't want to be on five boards." There was a point where I was on six boards.

Paul Casey:

Oh, my goodness.

Kyle Cox:

I'm on one board right now. And, and that feels good. I think for me, it's being able to say and prioritize, tonight, we can stay in, or being kind with yourself. I think, it's something that leaders need to do a better job with, is learning to be kind to yourself, because as you, again, depending on your life experience that can be difficult because of standards that you set for yourself or perceptions that you worry about. Learning to be kinder to yourself means that you have more capacity to be kinder to others.

Paul Casey:

Oh, it's good.

Kyle Cox:

And I think that it's something I'm going to be working on again, the rest of my life is trying to be kinder to myself. A lot of leaders, I think set really unrealistic expectations or overly stringent expectations of what we think we should be able to do. Knowing all the things that we know that others don't know that are going on in our head in our life experience.

Kyle Cox:

And so, I think those lily pads or green zones that you get to hop to is where you get to say, "You know what? I am really burned out right now on this." And being honest, in terms of, is there something else I could work on? Is there another project that's actually more impactful? Or could have more potential to be impactful? You know, what does that look like?

Kyle Cox:

But, again, that comes back to self-awareness and being able to say pause, I'm not reacting. I am proactive, you know what I mean? I'm being proactive in terms... And intentional with how I spend my time and energy and effort.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

And that takes a lot of work. It's something, again, I've got to worry about the rest of my life. And I know that.

Paul Casey:

Yeah, what I like about that is what you said about when you set realistic expectations for yourself, when you're kind to yourself, when you forgive yourself, then you expand that capacity to do that with your team, and all those around you because no one wants to live under a workaholic, slave driver, as a boss, who's always pushing themselves so much the extreme that you feel like you've got to push to the extreme too.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

So, being under a leader that is intentional about their own self-care really feels like an, "Ahhh." Like, okay, my leader gets work life balance or whatever we want to call that. Good stuff. So, it's easy to get trapped in reacting to crises in a leadership where you feel like you're just putting out fires all day. And as leaders, we have to put out our fires here and there. But, how do you, Kyle, specifically step back and take a look at the bigger picture?

Kyle Cox:

I think part of it is checking in with your team. I think just hearing where they're coming from too because whether it's a fire or a crisis or emergency, how you perceive it might be very different than your team perceives it. And, just being very aware of that, I think that when I was younger, and cutting my teeth, although I'm still cutting my teeth as a leader. I think, I had a tendency to be more disclosing in terms of... This is everything I know.

Kyle Cox:

And I think that as I've gotten more seasoned to this, and gain more and more years of this, I have a little more judicious in terms of, "Okay, this is where we're at." And I think part of it is being able to hit pause and say, "Okay, what do we need to know? What's coming down the pike?" So, that when we create space to have conversations about what to do, it doesn't feel so urgent, or this is where I'm already going.

Kyle Cox:

I think, sometimes in crises, you have staff that want you to be directive, and they want you to say, "This is what we're going to do," because depending on the level of crisis, or emergency. And, sometimes, you have to do that. You also hopefully, have built competency in relationship with your staff so that they trust you and understand that if you're recommending something, or if you're directing them to do something, it's based on X, Y, or Z. And it's because that relationship in that experience.

Kyle Cox:

I think, for me, it's just again, being self-aware. And sometimes, checking in with my wife. We're working at home during COVID that was really helpful, just to get an unbiased third party, that's the benefit of working with a coach, I can say that, is that you get to have people that you trust that are not part of your core kind of nest at work.

Kyle Cox:

It's also just kind of, for me, I'm a learner, I like data, I'm a planner. I think, at any given planner out of necessity. But, I like planning. And I think for me, it's about the scanning, what do we know what's coming down the pike through a COVID? I would call and I would talk to the Health District and the Governor's office. Even if it wasn't, because I was going to get information, so that I knew, and I could... Again, share with my staff, "Hey, this is what's coming down the pike. And this is what we can expect."

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

I mean, in a lot of ways, it's about shepherding and guiding in terms of the more that I know the terrain, the more that I can help us get to where we need to go.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

With the least amount of harm or danger. I told that to some younger leaders in the past is that, sometimes, you don't get to make the best decision. You don't get to make a perfect decision. Sometimes, it is, how can I do the least harm out of this situation. Again, hopefully, you're not doing that very often. But, again, that takes experience that takes being... Working with your team, and navigating these kinds of experiences.

Kyle Cox:

It also means, I think, giving some room for people. Not everyone's going to get the information initially. You're going to have to repeat it. You're going to have to talk about it. You're going to have to reiterate it. And you can have... That's been my experience with COVID is that, be prepared for talking, be prepared for conversation, be prepared for lessons learned and changing with your team.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

People refer to talk about it. You know what I mean?

Paul Casey:

Right. Yeah, you said a few great things. There are some gems that create relationships with your team, because it's hard for someone to follow a leader they don't completely trust. So, those relationships, when crises come are it's forged before that. Not during the crisis, usually, it's before that. You can spend some capital then, I guess.

Paul Casey:

But, during the crisis, then you said create space, space for the opportunities coming down the pike, create space for reiteration of a message, create space for those conversations. And then, he said, create that self-awareness of where am I at right now, so that I'm not reacting in crisis, people are start looking to me to be the rock and leadership. And so, I need to make sure that I'm taking good care of myself. So, a lot of good stuff there.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

All those are intentional leadership behaviors, none of them are urgent in the moment, right? They're quadrant too in the old covey model of not urgent, but boy...

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

... when you need to call on that moments, if you've built that quadrant too intentionality, it'll come through for you. So, one of the most difficult tasks that a leader as you know, Kyle, is having the difficult conversation, right?

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

I think, every leader has these moments where they have to confront a team member. How do you bolster the courage to do that?

Kyle Cox:

Practice. I think, when I've had to have difficult conversations, and I've had to have multiple difficult conversations, it's practicing. Again, sometimes, it's a script. It's making sure that you know what needs to be communicated. It also depends again, on the dynamic, if you're working in a union environment or other kinds of environments. There's also mechanics associated with that.

Kyle Cox:

One of the things that I worked on with my coach was realization, I should say. I've talked about this with my wife, I said, "If I care about someone, I have a hard time giving critical feedback." It's something that I have been aware of, again, it's a huge... It can hamper your ability to effectively have difficult conversations. If you're worried about, I'm going to hurt their feelings, or I don't want to hurt their feelings.

Kyle Cox:

So, it's something I worked on with my coach quite a bit was this idea of thinking about issues as a specific thing. Again, there's a lot of strategies to do this really well. But, I think just being very mindful of what I'm talking about, where I'm coming from, why it's relevant. Again, if you're having regular conversations, you shouldn't be having this many difficult conversations.

Paul Casey:

Right.

Kyle Cox:

I think that's the other piece too is that having regular check-ins and feedback as much as possible, which I acknowledge has been difficult with COVID, especially, is that you're losing some of that. I would say, positive interaction that isn't an issue or a crisis, or something that's what you would consider critical or corrective feedback.

Kyle Cox:

Having that dialogue going, I think, it really helps with that. At the library, when we were still shut down, we were having... Our exec teams having twice a week meetings, just to check in, because we didn't see each other at the office. And it was just as much to be seen and communicate with each other as it was to convey information and give updates.

Kyle Cox:

I think the more that you... It's also okay to say this is difficult. I think as a leader, we forget the fact that we can own our own emotions and say, "This is difficult for me." And you will even say why, if you really want to, but owning the fact that you as a human have emotions and feelings. And, sometimes, they're irrational. And, sometimes, they are contradictory. And, sometimes, they're involving things that your staff don't even understand or fully grasp because you haven't shared that with them, or et cetera. And so, I think I'm just taking stock of that fact, I write out, always write out when you need to get out.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

Practice it, review it, because in a lot of those conversations, I mean, there's a couple of different ways those conversations can go. But, just being able to be on point in terms of, this is the stuff I got to get out. I think that really helps. And then, again, own your perspective, own your emotions. If something is disappointing to you, you can say, I disappointed for blank, provide evidence as do that, you know what I mean?

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

I think that we get so caught up in the critical feedback piece that we can get. It's hard to get you to unwrap yourself when you get so wrapped up in this.

Paul Casey:

Yup.

Kyle Cox:

Am I going to hurt their feelings? Am I going to be seen as blank, too mean, too harsh, too critical?

Paul Casey:

Yeah, I like how you said the regular stream of feedback is probably going to lessen the need for too much or too big of critical feedback, because you're... There's also...

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

Those where... I'm keeping in touch with my team so well, that a lot of time hasn't gone by or something has blown up in between. So, that one, I've seen your script because I've had the privilege of working with your organization, and you're very thorough in your script for a critical conversation. I think that is excellent because if emotions do stir up and they will, you could squirrel away and ramble, and then put your foot in your mouth and not get to the outcome that you're trying to get in this moment. And so, I love how thorough you are in preparing for those conversations, good stuff.

Kyle Cox:

I think part of it, Paul, is it's... I don't want to fix the situation, I want to make it better. I think that's the difference is...

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

... if you want to make it better, because it's not just about interventional feedback, where I'm going to have an intervention because I need to change this. I think part of that is being able to step back and also say, "Hey, if we can work on these interrelated issues, too, we can make the whole thing better. And I think that's usually... It takes a lot more work. It takes a lot more time. But, if you can do that, I think you can get a better result.

Kyle Cox:

It also shows that you're investing in the person. It's not just about, I want you to fix this. It's that, I care about you as a human being. I trust in you, you're a good valued member of my team, let's work on these things because this will make you better and I'll make you a better team player.

Kyle Cox:

But, you have to invest in your staff as much as you can, and it's something that's tough because you think about trainings with dollars and cents and like per diem and all these things. But, it's also, okay, how can we support people as much as possible?

Paul Casey:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, I heard it once that it's care fronting not confronting. You're having this conversation out of care. And you're even... I think, you alluded to it in there is, there could be some organizational dynamics that is hurting this employee's performance. And we're just going to be honest about that, too. We're not here to bang them over the head, we're investing in them in their future. So, that's some of the best answers I've heard on this podcast. So, way to go, Kyle.

Kyle Cox:

Oh, good. That's good.

Paul Casey:

I hope that was helpful to our listeners.

Kyle Cox:

Yeah.

Paul Casey:

Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?

Kyle Cox:

I would say, your goal should not be to gain influence. I would say, that's not my goal. It's to make things better.

Paul Casey:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle Cox:

You said, "How you gain more influence?" I would actually say, if that's your objective, you need to take stock of your priorities, quite frankly. It should not be about... I mean, I'm thinking about the Otters, the high [inaudible 00:36:02] disc of really influence.

Paul Casey:

Yes.

Kyle Cox:

And, at different times in my life, I've displayed more of those traits. But, I think for me, it'd be take time to learn, Leadership Tri-Cities is a fantastic program. One of the great things that happens with Leadership Tri-Cities is that, you get a basically, a scan of the terrain, the scan of a region, you get to look at all the different sectors that serve our community, and you get to see the challenges and the obstacles. And, also, the opportunities that we all face as we serve our community.

Kyle Cox:

And so, I would say, as a leader, we have a tendency to think or want to think. I know what I'm doing, I am comfortable in my own skin, I can lead the charge of San Juan Hill, like Teddy Roosevelt. And I think that that's a very two-dimensional view of what leadership is. I think leadership is so many things combined, part of it is interpersonal skills. It is the ability to communicate. It's the ability to communicate verbally and non-verbally.

Kyle Cox:

But, I think so much of it is, is also allowing yourself time to learn from others, allowing yourself time in learning. They realize, you don't have to act all the time. You don't have to lead the charge all the time. Also, take stock of the fact that that San Juan Hill to use this metaphor might not be worth hurting up. It's just a matter of just taking stock of what you care about personally, and figure out how you can translate that into how you can take.

Kyle Cox:

You can basically, I'm trying to say it right. You can operationalize what you care about personally, and your professional behavior. And you can say this is how I can make things better. Again, I love learning. If I'm not learning, I'm not happy. It's a good thing I'm a librarian, because I think I'd be really unhappy if I wasn't in a learning profession.

Kyle Cox:

For me, again, it's figuring out how you can learn. I would say that, how can I learn about something? I don't know. How can I learn about people? I don't understand or know. How can I figure out the obstacles that people are facing and how can I help plug into that if I want to do that. It's just about learning. It's about having a growth mindset.

Kyle Cox:

If you want to be a good leader, you cannot have a fixed mindset that does not work. Those are two totally different things. You've got to be willing to learn and I think part of that is also being willing to be in situations where you are a little uncomfortable, where everyone might not agree with you. And being able to step back and say, "What can I learn from this? How can I learn from this? What can I do? Is this actually a place for me too?"

Kyle Cox:

Being honest is that, not every place is a place for you as a leader. And just being aware of mindful of that. Again, hopefully, surrounding yourself with people who care about things. I think passion is really important.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

For me, that's always a challenge is, if I'm not excited about it, it makes my life a whole lot harder. But, if I'm excited about it, I will give it 110% because I want to succeed. So, I'd say, learning about yourself, get as much self-awareness as humanly possible.

Paul Casey:

Yes.

Kyle Cox:

Work on yourself, work with a coach. I think that's a great way to develop as a leader. Look for organizations like Leadership Tri-Cities, which can help you expand your knowledge base and your experience base. Be kind to yourself. And then, again, all those things contribute to a growth mindset. And not even a growth mindset, a growth life.

Paul Casey:

Yeah.

Kyle Cox:

It's a lot easier to help others to grow if you're growing yourself.

Paul Casey:

That's so true. Yep, yep, have those leader, have those learner glasses on all the time. If I could sum up that last paragraph, that's what it would be both yourself, others, the situation, your team, all around. Great stuff. So, Kyle, how can listeners contact you if they wanted to connect with you?

Kyle Cox:

So, I mean, the easiest way would be through the library. Again, if you go to the library website, midcolumbianlibraries.org, you can get a hold of me that way. I'm also the one board, I'm on right now is Leadership Tri-Cities. I'm the class director for Class 26, which will be happening in 2022 at this point, but I'm involved with that.

Kyle Cox:

I'm happy to talk with listeners, if you want more information, although I would fully acknowledge they might know more about it than I do, so. Or, if you want access to great books, movies, materials, articles, et cetera, you can always take advantage of your local library and Mid-Columbian Libraries. Yeah.

Paul Casey:

You're here. Awesome.

Kyle Cox:

Keep reading, keep reading, keep learning. Honestly, this life is so complex. And I think to be a leader, you have to be living it. And you've got to figure out what that looks like from you because what it looks like for me, and you, Paul, it's different than what it is for anyone listening right now.

Paul Casey:

That's true.

Kyle Cox:

And there's a lot of opportunities to contribute and to give, and to support. And, find where you fits. And that means, trial and error.

Paul Casey:

It does. Kyle, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place. And keep reading well.

Kyle Cox:

Thank you. Yes, keep reading, keep living. Thanks, Paul.

Paul Casey:

Let me wrap up our podcast today with the leadership resource to recommend. It's called Vidyard, V-I-D-Y-A-R-D, Vidyard. I stumbled upon through a recommendations where you can send video messages, you can attach them to an email and instead of just emailing somebody, you can just talk to them. They open up the attachment and there you are saying, "Hello, you can be..." If it's a potential client, you can introduce yourself. If it's a thank you, you can be super personal from your heart. And now, they can hear your tone of voice where they can't just in a plastic email.

Paul Casey:

So, check out Vidyard. They've got a free membership, and there's also a paid membership that can put some bells and whistles with it. But, it's just a way to be more personal in your email by doing it by video. Again, this is Paul Casey, I want to thank my guests Kyle Cox from Mid-Columbia Libraries for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast.

Paul Casey:

And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Max Dupree says, "The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say, thank you, and in between the leader is a servant." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.

Speaker 2:

Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.

Speaker 2:

If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at [e-mail] for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.

Speaker 2:

Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.

Paul Casey:

The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse, SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.