In this episode of Unpack Pricing, James Brown, Chief Product Officer at Metronome, hosts a product leader-to-product leader conversation with Brandon Walsh, Director of PM, FinTech & Billing at HubSpot. Drawing on his experience at Intercom leading monetization, Brandon explains why usage-based billing fundamentally transforms product management, requiring deeper customer focus and making every team a "customer success team." He shares tactical frameworks for creating transparent and fair billing experiences, insights from implementing outcome-based pricing at Intercom, and how AI will shape how companies monetize. They explore how product careers are evolving to require cross-functional expertise, the build-vs-buy decision for billing infrastructure, and why product leaders should view billing as core to customer experience rather than back-office infrastructure. Brandon concludes with his "hot take" on why now is the time to be bold with pricing innovation while maintaining flexibility to iterate quickly. FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: http://metronome.com/unpack-pricing/beyond-the-seat-model-how-usage-based-pricing-is-transforming-product-teams – Follow: James https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-brown-0238ba23/ Brandon https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonwalsh/ – Check out: Hubspot: https://www.hubspot.com/ Metronome: https://metronome.com/ – Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (03:34) The rise of usage-based billing (04:03) Customer experience in usage-based models (06:00) How product teams must change (08:00) Every team becomes customer success (09:09) Organizational impact and team structure (10:41) Inbound vs. outbound product management (12:00) Product leadership and monetization (17:32) End-to-end customer experience (18:16) The revenue anatomy framework (21:53) Building billing experiences in product (27:46) Billing as product experience (31:02) Build vs. buy decision framework (37:00) Managing billing complexity (40:58) AI's impact on pricing and billing (47:34) Agent pricing and outcome-based models (54:26) Hot takes: The future of pricing (59:14) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Scott Woody, co-founder and CEO of Metronome, talks with Tomas "Tlo" Lorinc, Head of Monetization at Temporal Technologies, the leading open-source Durable Execution platform. They discuss how to overcome the inherent fear companies have around changing prices and why building your "pricing muscle" through regular iteration is essential for growth. Tlo (formerly of Auth0, Okta, and Digital Ocean) shares his methodology for field testing new pricing models, the strategic balance between art and science in pricing decisions, and why creating a high-trust environment is crucial for pricing experimentation. The conversation explores how to establish effective pricing councils that drive decisions rather than just updates, strategies for segmenting developer-focused products for enterprise markets, and preventing pricing erosion when moving upmarket. Tlo also offers insights on building worldviews through continuous research, managing cross-functional alignment on pricing changes, and why consistency often matters more than simplicity when scaling a complex product portfolio. FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: ⁠http://metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/breaking-pricing-inertia-building-an-experimentation-culture-with-tomas-tlo-lorinc⁠ -- Follow: Scott: ⁠https://x.com/l3amm https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/⁠ Tlo: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomas-lorinc-54957518/ ⁠ – Check out: Temporal: ⁠https://temporal.io/ ⁠ Metronome: ⁠https://metronome.com/⁠ – Timestamps: (00:00) Preview and Intro (01:15) Tlo's Background in Monetization (01:15) Tlo explains his role at Temporal and previous experience at Auth0 and Digital Ocean (02:00) Why companies fear pricing changes and the importance of exercising this muscle (04:48) Exploring ways to gradually build pricing iteration capabilities (10:00) How to effectively use sales teams to test new pricing approaches (13:17) Which sales rep profiles work best for pricing experiments and why (15:22) Traits needed in a good pricing professional based on company goals (20:54) Balancing developer-friendly pricing with enterprise sales models (25:22) How to have strategic pricing conversations with executive teams (29:41) Creating effective pricing councils that can actually make decisions (33:41) Determining who should be responsible for the quality of pricing change execution (36:28) How packaging can be used to validate and address market segments (42:07) Why segmentation is inevitable for B2B SaaS products (46:57) The balance between data-driven decisions and intuition in pricing (52:24) Pricing research across multiple sources and methods (58:41) Advice for pricing leaders in their first months at a new company (1:01:30) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Scott Woody, co-founder and CEO of Metronome, talks with Justin Farris, VP of Product and Monetization at GitLab, a DevSecOps platform. They discuss how GitLab successfully unified product-led growth, pricing strategy, and core systems under a single leader. Justin (ex-Zillow) shares why treating pricing as a product feature—not just a revenue lever—has been critical to GitLab's success, how they maintain one transparent price book across both self-service and enterprise customers, and why their buyer-based tiering model drives alignment between product and go-to-market teams. Justin also discusses how GitLab balances PLG and enterprise sales motions, how they avoid the "Cheesecake Factory menu" problem when creating add-ons, and his perspective on emerging AI pricing models that go beyond simple consumption-based approaches. FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: https://metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/gitlabs-playbook-for-running-plg-and-enterprise-motions-with-justin-farris – Follow: Scott https://x.com/l3amm https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/ Justin https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinrfarris/ – Check out: Gitlab: https://about.gitlab.com/ Metronome: https://metronome.com/ – Timestamps (Updated): (00:00) Preview and Intro (01:17) Justin's background at Zillow, journey to GitLab and current role (03:28) Discussion on PLG vs. sales-led motions at Dropbox and GitLab (06:02) Making PLG and sales partnership work - organizational structure (09:03) Aligning growth and go-to-market teams through shared metrics (11:02) Connecting product metrics to revenue impact and growth (13:39) Advice for companies looking to unify PLG and sales motions (14:39) Executive alignment: avoiding over-rotation to enterprise (17:02) GitLab's buyer-based pricing model and transparent price book (20:34) Pricing as core to product experience, not just a revenue lever (23:02) Packaging strategy: good-better-best vs. add-on approaches (26:22) Managing complexity: when to simplify product and pricing (29:35) Feeding packaging research back to product strategy (31:36) Testing new pricing models with limited availability products (34:48) Product leaders as GMs: understanding commercial implications (38:43) Everyone has opinions on pricing - finding alignment in organizations (39:49) AI pricing trends: from co-pilots to new commercial models (44:30) Buyer-based AI pricing and value-based models (49:14) Learning from startups' pricing innovations (50:27) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Scott Woody, co-founder and CEO of Metronome, talks with Matan-Paul Shetrit, Director of Product at Writer, a full-stack generative AI platform for enterprises. They explore the evolving landscape of AI pricing, where rapid model advancements and enterprise adoption create pricing challenges. Matan (ex-Brex, Square, Stripe) shares why per-token pricing falls short for enterprises, how Writer is shifting to a hybrid model, and the importance of predictability for adoption. Matan also shares how AI transformation mirrors the cloud migration journey, how to navigate the tension between product and GTM teams, and why tackling high-value but "mundane" workflows is key to multi-year renewals. FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/how-writer-is-winning-enterprise-ai-deals-with-matan-paul-shetrit – FOLLOW: Scott https://x.com/l3amm https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/ Matan https://www.linkedin.com/in/matan-paul-shetrit-aab12016/ – Check out: Writer: https://writer.com/ Metronome: https://metronome.com/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:21) Matan's career journey from government to Writer (04:16) How product managers should view pricing (07:24) Pricing limitations in competitive markets (09:00) Balancing usage growth vs. commercialization (10:18) Moving from token-based to platform pricing (14:03) Why token-based pricing doesn't work for large organizations (16:55) How Writer's pricing model provides predictability (21:01) Using entitlements vs. feature gating (23:30) Managing product in rapidly changing AI landscape (26:01) Why Writer trains their own models for enterprise (28:21) Making enterprise IT champions rather than detractors (31:45) Platform value beyond foundational models (32:23) Real appetite for AI in large companies (34:37) Finding high-value mundane workflows (36:50) Process for proving value to enterprise customers (39:00) The Importance of renewals vs. initial deals (41:01) Why self-serve PLG doesn't work for Global 2000 (44:05) Learning from established enterprises vs. disrupting (45:20) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Scott Woody, co-founder and CEO of Metronome talks with Vina McAllister, Vice President, Product Management - Commerce & Monetization at Twilio. Vina and Scott discuss how billing and commerce platforms need to be viewed as core customer experiences rather than just finance functions, drawing on Vina's experience at Twilio and Atlassian. They explore why successful billing product managers must understand the full business ecosystem - from sales and finance to customer behavior - to create seamless experiences that drive growth. FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: http://metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/why-billing-is-a-core-product-experience-at-twilio-and-atlassian – FOLLOW: Scott https://x.com/l3amm https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/ Vina https://www.linkedin.com/in/vmmcallister/ – CHECK OUT: Twilio: https://www.twilio.com/ Metronome: https://metronome.com/ – TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview and Intro (03:19) Atlassian's customer self-service (04:45) The necessity of prioritizing customer needs (06:00) A product manager’s role across domains (08:40) Event-based pricing and billing challenges (13:20) Unifying & simplifying multi-product experiences (15:50) On having clear strategies to integrate acquisitions (19:00) Advocating for commerce and billing as core business function (22:55) The argument that billing is not just a financial tool (26:05) Viewing billing teams as product teams (33:35) Navigating cross-functional challenges with empathy (38:05) How to become a successful billing PM (40:30) Empowering billing teams from order taking to problem solving (45:15) Importance of outcome-based pricing (47:40) Billing's evolution towards customer experience (48:33) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Sam Lee, VP of Pricing Strategy and Product Operations at Hubspot and former Snowflake pricing leader shares his deep expertise in building and scaling pricing teams. He joins host Scott Woody to explore why pricing “is a sledgehammer, not a scalpel” in business strategy. Sam discusses why pricing is inherently challenging as a multidisciplinary domain, shares insights from Snowflake's successful consumption-based pricing strategy, and explores how AI is reshaping traditional pricing models. He also offers insights into the future of AI-driven business models, suggesting a shift where data exchange between companies and customers could fundamentally alter commercial relationships in software. – FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: https://metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/inside-snowflakes-pricing-strategy-with-sam-lee – Follow: Scott https://x.com/l3amm https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/ Sam https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwise/ -- Check out: Value Monetization in the Age of AI, Sam Lee https://medium.com/value-monetization-in-the-age-of-ai/value-monetization-in-the-age-of-ai-5cafce30332e Metronome: https://metronome.com/ -- RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships , where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod -- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:07) Why is pricing so hard? (01:14) Sam's three reasons why pricing is difficult (05:57) Top-down vs. bottom-up pricing initiatives (07:50) Essential skills for effective pricing leaders (10:02) Product expertise & pricing outcomes: The Snowflake Copilot example (11:49) The price-value-product experience feedback loop (14:19) Pricing managers as product managers for the monetization system (17:22) Criteria for choosing value metrics: Alignment with customer perception & cost scaling (19:50) Advantages & disadvantages of a pure usage philosophy (26:39) Operationalizing pricing changes in a usage model (28:03) Handling greenfield vs. brownfield customers (35:09) The rarity of successful outcome-based pricing (41:19) Advice for transitioning to usage pricing (43:05) Skillsets needed for usage-based pricing (46:20) The weird future of pricing (59:32) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Spencer Kimball, co-founder and CEO of Cockroach Labs joins Scott Woody, co-founder and CEO of Metronome, to discuss CockroachDB's evolution over the past 10 years and how that's impacted their business models. Spencer Kimball discusses the pivotal decisions in open-source strategy, how the company navigated competition with hyperscalers, the non-obvious transformative power of open-source, and the importance of customer focus in driving long-term success for their business. – FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: https://metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/the-future-of-monetizing-open-source-with-cockroach-labs-co-founder-ceo – Follow: Scott: X: https://x.com/l3amm LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/ Spencer: LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencerwkimball/ – Check out: Cockroach Labs: https://www.cockroachlabs.com/ Metronome: https://metronome.com/ -- RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Check out Modern Relationships , where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod – Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (00:59) Spencer's background and CockroachDB's origin (06:06) The evolution of open source business models (10:05) Challenges and strategies in commercializing open source (16:29) The impact of hyperscalers on open source (18:42) CockroachDB's licensing journey (21:31) Future of open source (30:59) CockroachDB’s unified product offering (33:39) Customer reception and adjustments (35:41) Philosophical changes in tech (36:35) Cloud services and competition (40:47) Customer needs and strategic strengths (47:29) Future of cloud and AI (58:27) Staying energized as an entrepreneur (01:01:39) Wrap…

In this episode of Unpack Pricing, Jesse Miller, VP of Product Growth at Kong joins host Scott Woody , CEO and co-founder of Metronome , to discuss the interplay between product-led and sales-led growth. Jesse exposes common misconceptions about product-led growth, and offers insights into the critical role of user experience, product design, and pricing in successful PLG implementations. -- FULL TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE HERE: https://metronome.com/podcast/unpack-pricing/lessons-on-plg-from-dropbox-postman-and-kong-with-jesse-miller -- FOLLOW ON SOCIAL Scott: https://x.com/l3amm https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-woody-21677121/ Jesse: https://x.com/jesse_miller https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessejmiller/ -- CHECK OUT Kong: https://konghq.com/ Metronome: https://metronome.com/ -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:45) Jesse Miller's Background & Focus (01:29) Defining Product-Led Growth (02:12) The Evolution of Product-Led Growth (04:06) Should Every B2B Software Company Have PLG? (05:33) PLG in the Future of B2B Software (06:16) Growth Team Structures at Dropbox & Postman (08:30) Skills to Look for in a PLG-Focused PM (10:09) Prioritizing Skill Sets for a PLG Team (12:14) Building Relationships with Other Teams (13:01) Overcoming Friction with a Sales-Led Organization (14:38) Kong's Journey (17:16) PLG as a Lead Generation Tool for Sales (23:57) Different User Personas (25:07) The Challenges of Building PLG on Top of an SLG Motion (29:53) Tactical Tips for Building PLG on Top of SLG (31:24) Every Company Can Have Some PLG (34:19) The Benefits of Easy-to-Access Trials (35:26) Pricing and Packaging (37:53) The Importance of Pricing Transparency (38:35) Techniques for Optimizing the Pricing Experience (41:19) The Most Common Misconception about PLG (42:45) Wrap…