Manage episode 325561873 series 1529270
On today’s episode, the guys talk about how to get more sales by using your email list the RIGHT way. They break down how to specifically speak to your list, the importance of segmentation, and engaging your list to boost sales!
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This is a direct transcript. Please forgive any grammar or spelling errors.
Jason: So you’re not trying to be so slick that you can sell oh, sell ice to an Eskimo sorta.
Kevin: Do you want to do this, you know, quote on quote, build a relationship with somebody and they get the sense that you’re really not speaking to them directly. You’re not really building a relationship with them. They, and people see through that now,
Jason: You know, you can like increase your sales by 30, 40% just by doing email the right way.
Jen: You’re listening to eCommerce Uncensored with Kevin Monell and Jason Caruso.
Kevin: It’s been another episode of eCommerce Uncensored. My name is Kevin Monell and i’m here with
Jason: Jason Caruso.
Kevin: I feel like I’m coming across a little nasally this morning here. That is that just me a little bit, not bad. Anyway, before we get started, I wanted to mention our email service that we’re providing our audience. Um, we’re gonna jump into your email client, your Klaviyo, your whatever you’re using, see what you’re doing, and hopefully can step in and help you guys, um, to find out more about.
Text the word email to 8 4 4 6 4 3 0 7 4 5. You’ll get an auto response back to us with a link to a little survey to tell us a little bit about yourself and we’ll see how we can help. Yeah.
Jason: You know, Kevin, we’ve been doing those podcasts for five or six years almost, and we’ve tried. To help people with a lot of our experiences.
One that we were helping people with was Facebook ads and Facebook ads changed so much that it’s, it was really difficult to keep that product up to date. And you know, you and I have been talking a lot about email and how we know that our audience. The emails we get all the time are like email about email, email.
And we’ve always felt like that. Like, you know, it’s such like an old platform. It’s like, everybody should know how to do email. Like why would anybody? And we knew for a long time, that email was like a hot thing. Chose to kind of ignore it. And the interesting thing about this is that we’ve had some really interesting businesses reach out to us with this new thing that we’re offering.
You know, email is probably been one of, probably the most successful thing. And if you look at any of our before, before the pandemic, because obviously some supply chain issues have come up, but before the pandemic, I mean, email was. How literally all of our clients and most of our businesses made all their money.
Kevin: it depends on the constant the whole time.
Jason: Yeah. So it’s interesting since we’ve started doing this, like, I feel like we’ve learned more about our audience in this, the few episodes that we’ve been offering this service, then we haven’t like have over the last five years. Like, I, I feel like we’ve learned a lot and, um, Really interesting to see these people, like people like reaching out and texting us.
So if you have any, if you have a business that’s making money and, uh, you know, you’re just struggling with email and dude, we’re getting people reaching out to us that have multi-million dollar businesses that are struggling with email, which is, which is very interesting to me because you know, a lot of times like we can, we see like huge potential and in what they’re doing, just because of what their business is making.
And how much they’re making from email. And we’re like, oh shit. Like, there’s like a, you know, you can like increase your sales by 30, 40% just by doing email. Right?
Kevin: Yeah. We, we always talked about like doing an email, of course, to alongside the Facebook course and what we’re learning through this whole text thing is that a lot of bootstrappers out there, a lot of hustlers who are like doing everything and, you know, take a course as one thing, you know, but it’s another thing for someone to learn, we realized that, you know, people need.
You know, so that’s kind of what we’re providing, right? So text us. Yup. Text, email, the word, email to 8 4, 4 6 4 3 0 7 4 5.
Jason: It’s. Okay. If we’re going to talk about something today, that’s that actually is a email related. Yeah. Um, so. You know, you hear a lot of times that people talk about like the riches are in the niches and you hear all these cliches and you hear all these, um, you know, these people who make these statements and then don’t kind of elaborate on it and it could be confusing.
I think when somebody says the riches are in the niches, it kind of leaves you thinking like, okay, like what the hell does that mean? You know? Exactly. Um, and it’s sort of. Relates to email and what we’re going to talk about today, which is segmentation, right? And when you are in a niche, like a very tight niche, you know, exactly how to speak to people.
And we will give an example from our new golf business. Yesterday had the most sales we ever had, which is freaking awesome, man. Because like, I’m just so excited about this business because I’ve been driving you crazy about it so long and you’ve been, ah, you know,
Kevin: I don’t know. We just got to, we’ve been driving our audience crazy too about it, but talking about it here and there.
Yeah. Because you’ve
Jason: built yet. And then like, right. And you’ve been saying to me, like, dude, like, I don’t know, we got so much going on, like, okay. And then finally we had an opportunity to start it and we did it. It’s crazy to see something that we’ve created from nothing and making sales, but this is relevant to the topic today.
Kevin: I’m hearing you.
Jason: But what is interesting about it is that until we shift our shifted, our focus with that product, nobody was buying right until we started talking specifically to. Specific golfer in that specific audience, nobody was buying anything. And that’s sort of what sending email to your entire list is kind of like, right.
So when you send an email to your entire list and you lump them all into one. Type of person that’s when things start going awry, when you’re trying to, you know, uh, for instance, we just had somebody reach out to us with like a baby website. And if I have a two-year-old today, right, we’re recording this on, uh, April 13th.
It will be released on the 14th, but we’re recorded on the. And if I have a two year old today, next year, at this time, I will no longer have a two-year-old. So speaking to me, like I have a two year old is not going to
Kevin: resonate. Right. And your message gets lost. And the person at the other end kind of stops paying attention because they’re like, yeah, that’s.
That’s not what I need anymore. So it’s so important to create these groups of people and, you know, um, and speak to them where they are in their journey, in life, in their relationship with you, because that’s exactly what we did with the golfing. Like you said, like we were collecting emails and until we know.
Answered some questions like the answer to some questions for us, which gave us a better idea of where they actually were in their golf journey. We were able to speak to them directly. And the people who came in, who weren’t, we didn’t think was necessarily our exact customer at that time. We kind of segmented them into another group and spoke to them a little bit differently as well because they too, like, so we want, we want people to break 80, right?
So we also got people who want to break nine.
Jason: Uh, I just, I’m sorry, I didn’t want you to get into that just yet, because I don’t think anybody knows. I don’t think everybody knows what breaking is. So that’s why, but in golf, right? The lower your score, the better, right. And in golf, the holy grail of golf is breaking 80.
So shooting a 79 consistently is like the holy grail in golf. Right? If you can do that, you’re like in the top 5% of all golfers in the world. And when we first started the golf business, we were collecting emails. Um, well, we were collecting emails for everybody, but we were segmenting them depending on, or according to what they’re shooting.
Like you said, there are some people who shoot a hundred. There are some people who shoot 90, and then there are those who, uh, want to shoot in the eighties. And then, and then, like I said, the holy grail is in the seventies. So we started speaking to everybody. Generally. Now you can pick up
Kevin: if you use myself as an example, like I’m a golfer, I’m an average golfer.
I shoot in the nineties between 90 and a hundred consistently. And if you send me an email about breaking. It’s really not going to resonate with me. I mean, people, obviously I want to shoot a lower score because that’s always your goal, but.
Jason: But the gap between the app is too big.
Kevin: And it’s almost seems unattainable, especially when you’re saying you’re going to break 80 fast.
We know as golfers be like, yeah, that doesn’t seem right to me. So it’s not really necessarily going to work. So that, so me, I’m kind of in that other segmentation where you kind of talk to me differently and try to bring me down and maybe down the line, we have something else that would be perfect for me.
And then you start communicating to me to try to sell me that thing.
Jason: Yeah. And. It’s interesting. Cause we were running Facebook ads to the sales page to like a general, a general sales page and nobody was buying. And then literally the minute we, I mean, it was almost like instantly, like I changed it from speaking to everybody to speaking to people, just breaking 80 or who want to break 80 and almost instantly we got sales, like.
Like wait a minute. Like, this is like, this makes sense. Like we’re talking to a specific person and that’s kind of how you have to think about your segments in email, right? Um, it’s, it’s really like a good practice if you can. If you can get people’s birth dates to get, if you’re in the baby business to get the age of their child, um, trying to get some of these, these, this data, these details about people so that you can speak to them a certain way later.
And that’s exactly what we did with the golf thing, right? Like I had a lead magnet and it said like email and then a drop down that said, I’m trying to break. And then 80, 90 and a hundred. And we were able to segment people depending
Kevin: on how they answered. I think you also think, I have to think about how, uh, how a person gets on your list.
You know, we talk a lot about having hero products and, you know, the 80 20 rule, you know, you’re going to have that product that sells more than anything else. That’s going to be your product. That’s going to bring the most customers in right now. And we’re running a campaign for one of our clients that, you know, they, it’s a, it’s a lead capture.
Um, that is specifically for one product, but like most stores, I’m sure all the stores out there, you have multiple products, you know, you have to have multiple products as you build your business. So to bring someone in on a topic for that specific product. And then just start blasting them with other products in your product line, really kind of dilutes the real message that you’re trying to get to them to really acquire that customer for that, that product that you brought them in for.
So you, you bring them in for, let’s just say, you know, a golf ball, you know, you a topic lead magnet that you have for a golf ball, and then you start sending them emails about buying basically. Then you begin to throw them off, you know, they unsubscribe and they just start to like breeze by your emails all the time.
Jason: Yeah. And, and, you know, it’s funny because when I started studying this copywriting thing, And I’ve said this before in the podcast, right? Um, the, the, everybody across all of these books that I’ve read, they all say the same thing. And I’ve mentioned this before, so if you’ve heard this, I apologize for repeating it, but they all say the same thing.
They say, you’re not trying to sell people something, or you’re not trying to persuade people to buy something that they don’t want. The word they use is desire that they don’t desire or need, right. So you’re not trying to be so slick that you can sell ice, you know, or ice to an Eskimo sorta speak, right?
Like that’s not the goal. The goal is to give people things that they already desire that they already need and want. That is how and talking to different segments of your audience. According to, uh, those details, you will see your, your, your, uh, conversions just skyrocket because even if you have a list and I use this baby business as, as a example, because it’s a really good one for segmentation, like if I have a two year.
Today and next year you send me emails about a three-year-old and no one bought, and I never buy you will, you will probably get the impression about your list that it’s not working when really the problem is you’re talking about two year old clothes rather than three-year-old clothes that, so it’s not relevant to me.
If you then start talking about three-year-old. Three T you know, in the baby world. Um, now I may be interested, so it’s very, very important. And I, and I don’t think, you know, this is funny because Kim, one of our clients that was like one of the big things, when we first started working with her, she’s like, you guys are gonna set up all these, these segments at.
And we were like, yeah, yeah, we’re definitely gonna set up the segments, but we. We need a time to do it. But the point was is like, she really was like hot on that. And she was right. You know, she, she wasn’t wrong. And, uh, for that business, it’s a Hertz hair product. So there are four different hair types.
There’s type a well there’s, there’s a lot more than four, but there’s type a type B type.
Kevin: Right. There’s 1, 2, 3, 4, sorry. And then there’s like 180 1, sorry, 1, 2,
Jason: 3, 4. I’m sorry. Right. I don’t have any hair. So it’s kind of, so type one type two are like different and type three and type four. So if you’re talking to type one and type two people, like you would to a type three and type.
All those people are just going to ignore your message,
Kevin: especially when everybody’s flooded with so many messages. And like, if you really want to do them, all right, and you want to do this, you know, quote, unquote, build a relationship with somebody and they get the sense that you’re really not speaking them to them directly.
You’re not really building a relationship with them. They, and people see through that now they’re like, oh yeah. They’re just like blasting me with emails. Put it to the side or, you know, just don’t even acknowledge that it even showed up. Cause there’s so many distractions you need to speak to them directly.
That’s why we talk about like speaking to a person by first name, make it seem like it’s a really personalized approach.
Jason: Yeah. And I, and. I think that people don’t pay enough attention to this. Um, I actually, even in my emails, you know, what the golf business, not like, you know, it’s still a small list and it’s still, uh, you know, I’m still, we’re still building it.
But when I spoke specifically about topics, uh, that were directly related to the, the person who was reading it. That’s when I made the sales, but as soon as I made it too general, and wasn’t really speaking to anybody specifically, nobody was buying and it’s, it’s definitely an easy thing to overlook and also a very easy thing to not pay too much attention to.
Right. Because we look at our email lists as all the same person when really. That’s not like that’s. I mean, if you have a hundred thousand people on your email list, it could be a hundred thousand different personalities. So now what that leads to then is finding ways to, uh, segment people and something that we’ve talked about Kevin years ago, that is still relevant today.
In fact, It may even be more relevant cause it’s easier to track clicks and an email. Now, um, we just talk about like sending an email out to your list and maybe having like four images with four different links. So people can’t see the links, but there are four different links with different images that go to different places.
So if you, you may say something like, um, It’s new years and here are, here are our top baby selections for 2022. And you have four images. One will say, you know, three T 14, whatever 5, 6, 7, and you can segment people according to what they’re clicking and then put them into segments that you can talk to them about later.
And then you can kinda get an idea of where their babies. In terms of their age. So you could do that with any business. You can do that with the golf business. Like I can send an email out with four pictures. Does that say. If I, if you can, um, wave a magic wand, you know, what would you do?
Kevin: Yeah. Cause you know, at the very beginning, when you’re just bringing that person in, it’s very hard to know all this information, right.
It’s not simple. Like you’ve got to see, you got to build that up over time and on the front end of things, you really want to make it easy for someone to sign up for your list. Like you want to ask for maybe a first name and an email address, they come onto your list and that you doesn’t give you much information.
You know, you’ll get maybe their location based on their IP or anything like that. So then you have to try to figure out ways to, to gather that information you don’t want to, like, I mean, you could send surveys and things like that, but to make it, like Jason said, be creative. We do that for our hair, the hair business we work with, we send an email after someone signs up after, you know, several days, I think.
And it’s just for pictures of different hair types and it has you select your hair type and it takes you to a special offer based on that hair type at that point. We’ve, you know, there’s some privacy issues with apple that blocks some people, but for the most part, we can see where people go and then we can put them in a bucket based on their hair type.
And then we can speak to them. You know, we can show them pictures with people, with their hair type and not because then when you send it, you send a person, a hair type that doesn’t match Thursday. The message gets lost. I’m sorry, go ahead. No, no. I was going to talk about, uh, another way to segment to segment people is to based on their activities, right?
If they’ve been on your list for a really long time, you speak to them one way. If they just came onto your list, you speak to them another way. If they’re not very active, if they’re not opening your emails, if they’re not clicking through your emails. You have to try to start getting them more engaged and you speak to them differently to someone who’s clicking through.
That’s that PR that’s showing me that, that person’s really interested. I need to speak to them differently.
Jason: Yeah. And I, and it may sometimes just take you, you being more specific to their problems to get that list going or to get that engagement going. Um, and you know, another like, and it’s so easy now to tag people, right?
So easy, you click a link. And then you can, now you kinda know where they are in their journey and some really, really good way to speak specifically another, you know, that haircare product that we’re talking about Kevin, the minute, because here’s the thing, one thing that I got, another thing that like really, I think is eye opening was with the haircare product and Kim, right.
Even though you can have four types of hair, you know, type one type, two type three type four on your email list. Um, there may be a segment and this is something I don’t think a lot of people do, but there may be a segment of people who tend to buy your product more than others. So what I mean by that is even though.
Maybe you’re pitching to a type three hair. Maybe they don’t buy your product. Maybe it’s a type ones who are buying your product and segmenting your list and segmenting your customers will give you all of that data that will allow you to tailor your message. And I don’t think enough people do that.
It’s like, okay. Yeah. You know, I have this segment of people and I have that segment of people. That’s great. It doesn’t stop there though. It’s like, okay, well, are those people buyers. And if they’re not, then just ignore them. If they’re not going to buy. I mean, if they’re on your list for six months and they’re never going to buy and you sent them multiple, um, multiple emails and they’ve never bought, you know, maybe you put them aside and you don’t, you don’t mail to them.
Kevin: Yeah. You clean your list. Yeah, we do that all the time. People who haven’t opened our emails in 90 days, uh, you know, our open rates skyrocket and it helps it helps your deliverability moving forward. When you can exclude those people, you just know they’re not people haven’t opened your email in 90 days.
Th the chances are, they’re not going to open your email. So why send to them, why spend the money on that and that person being on your list. So clean your list, keep it clean. Yeah. So
Jason: very, very important to do this man, speak directly to the people you’re, you know, or the problem that your customer is trying to solve.
And you will see, I will promise you if you do this. You will see a massive, I mean, it happened with the haircare product. We shifted our focus and started to become more targeted and the business blew up the golf business. It wasn’t working all of a sudden we change around who we’re talking to and boom, it starts working.
I mean, I could talk about this over and over and over again. Go down all of our businesses that we’ve ever worked with. And the minute you start getting specific to the right person, then you’ll, you’ll see sales start start happening. The problem is that people get discouraged because they’re like, well, This segment is too small and I’m going to flood, you know, I’m going to saturate the market.
Like, dude, you’re good. Trust me. There’s, there’s a lot more people
Kevin: out there that can buy your stuff. Yeah. I get lost in segmenting. We obviously, you know, we obviously use Klayvio cause it gives you all that data, but you gotta make sure that you have a tool that can do all this stuff. I mean, it’s sometimes amazing to me.
Amount of different segments, like based on all kinds of things that you can do when you’re inside Klayvio and, and grouping people together. And I could just sit there forever because what I’ll do I’ll do, I’ll make a segment based on, I don’t know, I’ll just come up with something and then I’ll, I’ll export the list and I’ll just look at like, you know, the historical Val, the historic, uh, lifetime value and things like that over and over again.
How many, how many orders they placed just to see. How that segment is doing. And if that is doing really well, like, okay, I did it last night. We did ran a giveaway for one of our clients. And I just, I looked at that specific. I looked at that time period of when people came into our list, because that’s what our campaign was for a giveaway.
I looked at that group of people and how that sales went. And this has been, it’s not been six months later. I can look at the sales from that segment and be like, wow, that campaign, because it takes time. To build that up. Uh, that campaign worked really well after six months. So maybe we have to continue doing that, that same campaign we did six months ago because we know that that return will be there.
Jason: it’s really a, uh, so, and we, you know, we’ve tried like what, some of our newer businesses that we’ve started, like we’ve tried other email platforms just because, until we were making money, we weren’t going to, like, we just wanted to sh. Find something that was inexpensive that we can just, you know, um, but like after literally like a week, we were just like, yeah, we got to go to Klaviyo and we just bite the bullet, uh, you know, with the cost of it, you know, it’s just an investment and it just gives you too much data.
It’s really hard to, to, uh, argue against data, you know?
Kevin: So. To do these kinds of things, these segmentations understanding how you can talk to your, uh, specific segments, better do better with your email marketing, text the word email to 8 4 4 6 4 3 0 7 4 5. Again, you’ll get a little, a link back that will you’ll fill out a form.
Tell us a little bit about yourself and we’ll see how we can help. Yeah, it’s really,
Jason: it’s really cool to see these, these, these, these businesses reaching out to us calf because. It’s amazing to see like how much potential some of these businesses have if they just did
Kevin: email a little bit better. Yeah. I love it too, because it’s giving us some insight on what to talk about too.
We’re seeing, we’re getting insights on who these who’s listening to our podcasts and it’s something we, you know, we’ve struggled with a little bit, so I guess
Jason: it’s growing though, man. I’ll thank everybody, dude. We got to thank everybody. There were days we were getting like quadruple the downloads that we’ve we were getting, I don’t know if that’s still going is still, no,
Kevin: not really. It’s just a little spike that we had in trap a little spike. I don’t know why it was over a weekend growing. Definitely growing up a hundred percent. All right, guys. Thank you guys so much for listening as always, you can check us out at e-commerce uncensored.com and we’ll talk to you guys real soon
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