최고 Ezra Klein 팟캐스트 (2025)

1
Is Trump Losing? A Debate 1:13:54

1d ago1:13:54

1:13:54

Is Donald Trump eroding American democracy and consolidating power for himself? Or is he trying to do that and failing? Is this what sliding toward authoritarianism looks like? Or is this what a functioning democracy looks like? And how can you tell the difference? Two articles came out recently that offer very different perspectives on these quest…

1
‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education’ 1:08:25

4d ago1:08:25

1:08:25

I honestly don’t know how I should be educating my kids. A.I. has raised a lot of questions for schools. Teachers have had to adapt to the most ingenious cheating technology ever devised. But for me, the deeper question is: What should schools be teaching at all? A.I. is going to make the future look very different. How do you prepare kids for a wo…

1
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism 1:07:16

8d ago1:07:16

1:07:16

A good rule of thumb is that whatever Margaret Atwood is worried about now, the rest of us will likely be worried about a decade from now. The rise of authoritarianism. A backlash against women’s social progress. Climate change leading to social unrest. Advertising permeating more and more of our lives. We originally released this episode back in M…

1
How a Red-District Democrat Is Navigating Trump 57:06

11d ago57:06

57:06

Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez is one of just 13 Democrats to represent a district that Donald Trump won. Her distinctive economic message, and a willingness to buck her own party, helped her win re-election. But now the reality of the Trump era is coming home. Gluesenkamp Perez faced raucous crowds at town halls in Washington State recentl…

1
Trump vs. the Dollar 1:02:39

15d ago1:02:39

1:02:39

The U.S. dollar is the lingua franca of the global financial system. The fact that so much of the world relies on our currency has long been understood as our exorbitant privilege — the reason we have so much leverage in the global economy and are able to borrow at lower interest rates. But the Trump administration has a much more complicated relat…

1
Abundance and the Left 1:14:51

18d ago1:14:51

1:14:51

“Abundance,” the book I co-wrote with Derek Thompson, hit bookstore shelves a little over a month ago, and the response has been beyond anything I could have imagined. And it’s generated a lot of interesting critiques, too, especially from the left. So I wanted to dedicate an episode to talking through some of them. My guests today are both on the …

1
Ross Douthat on Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics 1:35:29

22d ago1:35:29

1:35:29

I have no earthly idea how to describe this conversation. It’s about religion and belief – at this moment in our politics, and in our lives more generally. My guest and I come from very different perspectives. Ross Douthat is a Catholic conservative, who wrote a book called “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” I’m a … Californian. But I thi…

1
The Very American Roots of Trumpism 1:13:46

24d ago1:13:46

1:13:46

After last week’s episode, “The Emergency Is Here,” we got a lot of emails. And the most common reply was: You really think we’ll have midterm elections in 2026? Isn’t that naïve? I think we will have midterms. But one reason I think so many people are skeptical of that is they’re working with comparisons to other places: Mussolini’s Italy, Putin’s…

1
The Emergency Is Here 1:12:20

1M ago1:12:20

1:12:20

The president of the United States is disappearing people to a Salvadoran prison for terrorists: a prison built for disappearance, a prison where there is no education or remediation or recreation, a prison where the only way out, according to El Salvador’s justice minister, is in a coffin. The president says he wants to send “homegrown” Americans …

1
Tom Friedman Thinks We’re Getting China Dangerously Wrong 1:08:12

1M ago1:08:12

1:08:12

My colleague Tom Friedman thinks we’re screwed. That’s the first thing he told me when recounting his recent trip to China. It’s not just because of the trade war that President Trump is escalating right now. Friedman believes the whole Washington consensus on China — that the country is a hostile adversary — is dangerous and based on an outdated u…

1
Trump’s Tariffs, Market Panic and What Comes Next 1:00:14

1M ago1:00:14

1:00:14

After a week of market chaos, President Trump pulled back from the brink. But he didn’t pull that far back. He left a 10 percent tariff on most of the world and launched a trade war with China. It’s unclear what he will do after this 90-day pause or what countries need to do to satisfy him. But one thing that is very clear now is that our economy i…

1
Paul Krugman on the ‘Biggest Trade Shock in History’ 50:45

1M ago50:45

50:45

The tariffs President Trump unveiled this week were both bigger than most people expected and a lot more confusing. These aren’t the flat tariffs he proposed during the campaign. And they aren’t reciprocal tariffs, as he claimed in his Rose Garden speech. So what is Trump actually doing here? I knew my former colleague Paul Krugman would have some …

1
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’ 1:11:32

2M ago1:11:32

1:11:32

There’s something of a policy revolution afoot: As of March, more than a dozen states — including California, Florida and Ohio — have passed bills or adopted policies that aim to limit cellphone usage at school. More are expected to follow. Jonathan Haidt is the leader of this particular insurgency. “The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring o…

1
The Last 2 Months — and Next 2 Years — of U.S. Politics 37:21

2M ago37:21

37:21

It’s our first subscriber-only “Ask Me Anything” of the year. The show’s executive producer, Claire Gordon, joins me to discuss your questions about the risk of a constitutional crisis and how Democrats, businesses and universities are responding to President Trump. Thank you to everyone who sent in questions. And if you aren’t a New York Times sub…

1
What Is DOGE’s Real Goal? 1:11:09

2M ago1:11:09

1:11:09

The so-called Department of Government Efficiency is great branding. Who could be against a more efficient government? But “efficiency” obfuscates what’s really happening here. Efficiency to what end? Elon Musk, President Trump and DOGE’s boosters have offered various objectives — cutting the deficit, eliminating fraud and abuse, creating a leaner …

1
The Origins of Abundance 1:12:54

2M ago1:12:54

1:12:54

To mark the release of our new book “Abundance,” my co-author Derek Thompson had me on his podcast, “Plain English,” to talk about it. We’re on book tour right now, so we’re doing a lot of talking about this book. But this conversation is different. It’s just Derek and me, and we get into the story of how the book came together, and all the people …

1
Democrats Need to Face Why Trump Won 1:18:04

2M ago1:18:04

1:18:04

After the last election, there were all kinds of theories about where Democrats went wrong. But now, four months later, we have a lot more data – and it tells a few clear stories. David Shor is the head of data science at Blue Rose Research, a Democratic polling firm, which does an enormous amount of surveying of the electorate. A few weeks ago, Sh…

1
Is Trump ‘Detoxing’ the Economy or Poisoning It? 1:01:20

2M ago1:01:20

1:01:20

It’s hard to understand the economic logic of President Trump’s tariffs. In our last episode, we tried, but with limited success. And that might be because the logic here isn’t entirely economic at all. So we wanted to spend an episode looking at Trump’s economic policies through a wider lens. Gillian Tett is a columnist at The Financial Times and …

1
Why Trump’s Tariffs Won’t Work 1:01:16

2M ago1:01:16

1:01:16

Wall Street thought Donald Trump was bluffing about his tariff plans. The stock market rallied after his election. But the reality has started setting in. Trump is doubling down on tariffs, even as he warned Americans that the economy may experience a “period of transition,” insisting this is just short-term pain. So what exactly is Trump’s theory …

1
There Is a Liberal Answer to Elon Musk 17:00

2M ago17:00

17:00

Right-wing populism thrives on scarcity. The answer is abundance. But a politics of abundance will work only if Democrats confront where their approach has failed. This audio essay is adapted from my forthcoming book, “Abundance,” which I wrote with Derek Thompson. You can preorder it here. And learn more about our book tour here. Unlock full acces…

1
This Trump Speech Was the Ultimate Loyalty Test 48:58

2M ago48:58

48:58

The economy has started blinking red. President Trump’s tariffs have been roiling markets. Consumer sentiment was already down. G.D.P. forecasts are predicting slower growth. And on Tuesday night Trump declared to Congress and the nation that things had never been better. Something was different about this speech. The level of baldfaced lying. The …

1
The Government Knows AGI is Coming 1:06:23

2M ago1:06:23

1:06:23

Artificial general intelligence — an A.I. system that can beat humans at almost any cognitive task — is arriving in just a couple of years. That’s what people tell me — people who work in A.I. labs, researchers who follow their work, former White House officials. A lot of these people have been calling me over the last couple of months trying to co…

1
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy 1:20:39

3M ago1:20:39

1:20:39

If you’re looking for a single-sentence summation of the change in America’s foreign policy under Donald Trump, you could do worse than what Trump said on Wednesday: “The European Union was formed in order to screw the United States. That’s the purpose of it. And they’ve done a good job of it. But now I’m president.” Trump seems to loathe America’s…

1
A Theory of Media That Explains 15 Years of Politics 1:03:51

3M ago1:03:51

1:03:51

In 2016, when Donald Trump won the first time, a little-known book became an unexpected phenomenon. It was “The Revolt of the Public,” self-published two years earlier by a former C.I.A. media analyst, Martin Gurri. Gurri, who is now a visiting research fellow at the Mercatus Center, argued that a revolution in how information flowed was driving po…

1
A Democrat Who Is Thinking Differently 1:03:43

3M ago1:03:43

1:03:43

After the elections, I started asking congressional Democrats the same question: If the elections had gone the other way, if they had won a trifecta, what would be their first big bill? In almost every case, they said they didn’t know. That’s a problem. Democrats are in the opposition now. That means fighting the worst of what Trump is doing. But i…

1
The Republican Party’s NPC Problem — and Ours 18:05

3M ago18:05

18:05

What happens when ambition no longer checks ambition? Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-r…

1
What if Trump Just Ignores the Courts? 1:34:58

3M ago1:34:58

1:34:58

We are moving into the next phase of Donald Trump’s presidency. Phase 1 was the blitz of executive actions. Now comes the response from the other parts of the government — namely, the courts. A slew of judges, some of them Republican appointees, have frozen a number of the administration’s most aggressive actions: the destruction of U.S.A.I.D., the…

1
What Elon Musk Wants 1:07:13

3M ago1:07:13

1:07:13

Elon Musk has been on a slash-and-burn tear through the federal government — gaining access to I.T. systems, dismantling U.S.A.I.D. and unleashing a firehose of attacks on his platform, X, accusing the bureaucracy of various conspiratorial crimes. As this all unfolds before our eyes, it’s hard to believe that Musk, not that long ago, was a conventi…

1
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order 1:19:22

3M ago1:19:22

1:19:22

There are two pieces to this episode. First, a tour of what Donald Trump has done — and what he has backed down from doing — over the last few days. There’s a lesson there. Perhaps Democrats are starting to learn it. Then I wanted to hear the view of Trump’s first weeks back in office from someone on the right — someone who agrees with many of Trum…

1
Don't Believe Him 14:29

3M ago14:29

14:29

Look closely at the first two weeks of Donald Trump’s second term and you’ll see something very different than what he wants you to see. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from …

1
MAGA’s Big Tech Divide 1:34:29

4M ago1:34:29

1:34:29

MAGA has long been hostile to Big Tech. So now that Big Tech is shifting rightward, what does that mean for MAGA? “We’re seeing a true political coalition having to navigate very, very big questions about how to keep themselves together,” James Pogue told me. He’s a contributing writer at Times Opinion who has been covering the intellectual ferment…

1
Let’s Get to the Marrow of What Trump Just Did 1:03:23

4M ago1:03:23

1:03:23

On the first day of President Trump’s second term, he signed a record 26 executive orders. Some of them were really big. Others feel more likely messaging memos. And still others are bound to be held up in the courts. So what does it all amount to? What exactly in America has changed? In a former life, I co-hosted a podcast called “The Weeds” with …

1
So That's What 'Make America Great Again' Means 48:00

4M ago48:00

48:00

There’s a quieter transition happening beneath the pageantry of this week’s inaugural events — a transition not of power per se but of the rules around how power in Washington works. And the new rules look very different from the old ones. In this conversation, I’m joined by Aaron Retica, an editor at large for New York Times Opinion (and my column…

1
Democrats are Losing the War for Attention. Badly. 1:13:18

4M ago1:13:18

1:13:18

Trump is a master at wielding attention. He’s been owning news cycles and squatting in Americans’ minds for much of the last decade. And for his second term he has an ally in Elon Musk, a man with a similar uncanny skill set. Trump and Musk seem to have figured out something about how attention works in our fragmented media age — and how to use it …

1
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong? 1:08:19

4M ago1:08:19

1:08:19

Joe Biden wanted to show Americans that there was a better path than Trumpism. He worked to build a “foreign policy for the middle class.” He centered industrial policy. He took a more competitive tack with China. He kept America out of wars. The hope was that if Americans saw foreign policy serving their interests, then that would dim the appeal o…

1
Trump 2.0 and the Return of ‘Court Politics’ 1:06:42

4M ago1:06:42

1:06:42

The preview we’ve had into Donald Trump’s second administration already feels, by American standards, disturbingly abnormal: Picking a former “Fox and Friends” host for defense secretary. Billionaire after billionaire trekking to Mar-a-Lago to curry favor with the president-elect. The Washington Post withholding an opposing endorsement. Meta ending…

1
Burned Out? Start Here. 1:04:42

4M ago1:04:42

1:04:42

I like to begin each year with an episode about something I’m working through more personally. And at the end of last year, the thing I needed to work through was a pretty bad case of burnout. So I picked up Oliver Burkeman’s latest book, “Meditations for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts.” Burkeman’s big…

1
Best Of: Sabbath and the Art of Rest 1:01:45

5M ago1:01:45

1:01:45

I have a tendency to end the year feeling pretty worn out. And that’s partly because I struggle to rest properly throughout the year, to build rest into a routine and stick to it. That’s how I was feeling at the end of 2022, when we originally taped this episode. And it’s certainly how I’m feeling at the end of this year, so this felt like a valuab…

1
What I’m Thinking at the End of 2024 50:51

5M ago50:51

50:51

There’s a lot to process as 2024 draws to a close. In our end-of-year Ask Me Anything, the supervising editor of “The Ezra Klein Show,” Claire Gordon, joins Ezra in the studio to ask your questions – on politics, and lots of not-politics too. Ezra talks about the ways this year has affected him personally: how his views on government have changed; …

1
Yes, Biden’s Green Future Can Still Happen Under Trump 1:01:13

5M ago1:01:13

1:01:13

In 2022, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act, ushering in, by some estimates, nearly half a trillion dollars of investment in green energy and manufacturing. But what will happen to this huge investment as Donald Trump enters office? Jigar Shah is one of the best people to answer this question. As the director of the Loan Programs Of…

1
‘A Sword and a Shield’: How the Supreme Court Supercharged Trump’s Power 45:27

5M ago45:27

45:27

Donald Trump will enter office at a time when presidential power has significantly expanded, because of a string of Supreme Court decisions in recent years. These decisions can be understood to have two functions: They give presidents a “sword” to act more decisively and unilaterally, and a “shield” that protects them from prosecution against actio…

1
Best Of: How TV, Twitter and TikTok Remade Our Politics 1:03:52

5M ago1:03:52

1:03:52

This election felt like the peak of the TV-ification of politics. There’s Trump, of course, who rose to national prominence as a reality-TV character and is a master of visual stagecraft. And while Trump’s cabinet picks in his first term were described as out of central casting, this time he wants to staff some positions directly from the worlds of…

1
You Had a Lot of Questions About the Election 40:32

5M ago40:32

40:32

This is our first bonus content of the paywall era, a subscriber-only, election-themed “ask me anything.” If you haven’t subscribed and would like to, you can do that directly through Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or click here. If you don’t want to subscribe, you’ll still have an end-of-year “ask me anything” coming down your feed — a mix of politic…

1
Best Of: Why the Far Right Is Thriving Across the Globe 1:31:27

5M ago1:31:27

1:31:27

It was possible to see Donald Trump’s first election victory as some kind of fluke. But after the results of this election, it’s clear that America is living in the Trump era. And for Americans who’ve struggled to process this fact, you have lots of company around the world. From Hungary to Brazil, right-wing figures with openly authoritarian goals…

1
It's the Corruption, Stupid 1:12:18

6M ago1:12:18

1:12:18

Right after the election, I talked about how the results reminded me of 2004. George W. Bush won re-election that year — and unlike four years earlier, the popular vote, too. Democrats were truly, undeniably in the wilderness. But two years later, they found their way out. Democrats won the House for the first time in 12 years. And two years after …

1
Would Bernie Have Won? 1:16:14

6M ago1:16:14

1:16:14

There are a lot of different opinions about how the Democratic Party should rebuild after the blow of Donald Trump’s victory. And for the next two episodes, we’re going to showcase two very different ones. Faiz Shakir was Bernie Sanders’s 2020 campaign manager, and he believes that Democrats need to embrace a Sanders-style class-first populism. Thi…

1
In This House, We’re Angry When Government Fails 1:08:46

6M ago1:08:46

1:08:46

The core conflict in our politics right now is over institutions. Democrats defend them, while Republicans distrust them, and seek, in some cases, to eliminate them. This is really bad. It’s bad for institutions when Republicans are elected, because of the damage they might inflict. And it’s bad for institutions when Democrats are elected, because …

1
Trump Kicks Down the Guardrails 1:06:34

6M ago1:06:34

1:06:34

I’ve been watching since the election to see what timeline we’re in. And Donald Trump’s first wave of selections for appointees were pretty straightforward. But then came the turn: Pete Hegseth, a former “Fox & Friends” host, to helm the Pentagon; Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence; and the real gut-punch, the former representative…

1
The End of the Obama Coalition 1:04:57

6M ago1:04:57

1:04:57

The Democratic Party has been hemorrhaging nonwhite and working-class voters. There are a lot of theories about why that has been happening, blaming it on the party’s ideas or messaging or campaign tactics. But I think the problem might be deeper than that — rooted in the structure of the Democratic Party itself. Michael Lind is a columnist at Tabl…

1
The Book That Predicted the 2024 Election 1:01:53

6M ago1:01:53

1:01:53

To understand the 2024 election results, it helps to go back to 2020. Donald Trump lost the election that year, but he made significant gains with nonwhite voters. At the time, a lot of Democrats saw that as a fluke, a hangover from Covid lockdown policies. But the Republican pollster Patrick Ruffini saw it as bellwether. In his 2023 book, “Party o…

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